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decobugma07 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2005 Posts: 1049 Location: Newtonville, MA
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Can I adapt the canister to my 68 bug? |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Sure, as long as you're willing to replace your fuel tank to a later style and add all of the ancillary parts required. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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Bookwus Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2003 Posts: 1786 Location: City of Roses
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Hiya web,
Thanks for the props!
I'm glad to see you formalize this procedure with pictures (and that Glenn made it a sticky). For quite a few years now I've tried to sell the idea that an intact M26 system is good for the driver, good for the environment, and good for the engine. It seems that some folks have a hard time getting their head around that idea. Thanks for making the process easier to understand. _________________ Mike
1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck
Have an AutoStick? Check out www.auto-stick.com |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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You're very welcome. And that publication we discussed....I'm going to take a swing at it and see if I can get any traction. Doubtful, considering their audience, but I can certainly try. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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Bookwus Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2003 Posts: 1786 Location: City of Roses
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya web,
webwalker wrote: |
You're very welcome. And that publication we discussed....I'm going to take a swing at it and see if I can get any traction. Doubtful, considering their audience, but I can certainly try. |
Yeah, the speed and custom set. But what the hey! You're sure not to get it published if you don't give it a try. So go ahead and submit. _________________ Mike
1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck
Have an AutoStick? Check out www.auto-stick.com |
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tailwaggers Samba Stray
Joined: August 31, 2009 Posts: 270 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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What is part #25 in the diagram? A check valve? _________________ '71 Convertible
'93 Cabriolet
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -Groucho |
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tundrawolf Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2009 Posts: 1384 Location: RIP Mishomi my friend. I will always love you.
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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P.S. The tapered plug is called a "pipe plug", because of the taper it can be threaded into a pipe, etc. Dude, great write up. Would deactivated powder work? Or does it have to be granulated? |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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tailwaggers wrote: |
What is part #25 in the diagram? A check valve? |
IIRC, it is a check valve, but it is for a later year. The 1972 model that I rebuilt did not have it, nor have I seen a model with it. (Though that in itself may tell you how often I've seen a complete M26 late model system that was completely intact!)
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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tundrawolf wrote: |
P.S. The tapered plug is called a "pipe plug", because of the taper it can be threaded into a pipe, etc. Dude, great write up. Would deactivated powder work? Or does it have to be granulated? |
You wouldn't want to use powder, as it would clog too easily; air from the fan housing needs to pass easily through the canister. One test item that I will include in a future edit of this procedure is to plug the small inlet and BLOW through one of the large inlets. You should be able to blow through with little resistance. The powder would tend to pack together, causing blockage or dead spots or channels to form for the air so that only a tiny portion of the surface area of the charcoal would be exposed to the inlet gases, and outlet air.
See the wiki writeup on activated charcoal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon
The stuff that you want to buy is GAC (Granulated Activated Charcoal). If you go to a Petsmart or PETCO, you'll find GAC in half gallon containers. Shake before you buy if you can't see in to the container. The particle size (as you can see from my pictures) is about the size of rice krispies. If it sounds like sand in the container, stay away from it. That's powder, and it doesn't present enough space between the particles for air to travel easily.
Thanks for your clarification on the 'pipe plug.' I bought mine at Lowes in the plumbing section after looking over good candidates in the brass section. The taper on the galvanized part is what sold me on this, as I knew it would have to both thread easily in to a pretty rudely drilled hole, but also be able to grab the screen on the inside and thread through that too, without pushing it further in to the body.
I'm considering doing another canister and producing better pictures to boot. Thanks for the interest. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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tundrawolf Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2009 Posts: 1384 Location: RIP Mishomi my friend. I will always love you.
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest, I am one of those guys that rips the emissions stuff off of any car he can get away with it on. After reading your article I realize how important that can is. I even told a friend to rip that canister out of there because it's worthless-good thing he didn't heed my advice.
The reason I know the official name for the pipe plug is because I searched far and wide to find something that would plug the hole in the underside of my motorcycle after it hit a rock. I ended up with a "Recessed pipe plug", which is what you put into your canister, but without the square bulge. Instead it has a hex recess for an allen wrench.
Thanks again for the writeup! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: |
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webwalker wrote: |
The primary kudos should go to Bookwus who has been PM'ing the howto to anyone who would listen for several years now. My procedure is a minor adaptation of his method.
I figured I'd throw this out there in a more 'in your face' manner to try to get Dubbers to *think* before they start tearing things off their car.
M |
I've been beating on people for years to quit taking the charcoal cannister off their vehicles. Its just stupid. Thanks for posting this.
One problem though.....DO NOT use aquarium charcoal. It is not the correct product and will do little for fuel vapors.
There are many grades and types ofactivated chrcoal. The activated chrcoal for aquariums is granular and usually has a fairly high "iodine" number.....for water filtration. It does not have the surface area necessary for vapor filtration. It also does not allow proper vapor flow.
The charcoal in the evaporative emmissions cannister is a form of extruded activated charcoal.
Take some of it out and measure the particles....and then contact one of the many carbon companies on this continent.....and ask them what you should use. They will tell you what grade of extruded carbon it is....and what type of carbon is prefered for hydrocarbon absorption....ie...lignite, peat, bituminous, coconut etc.
Oh...by the way...there are two different grades of carbon in "most" cannisters. I say "most"...because there was a lot of variation from early to late. You show them both in your pictures. That cannister had both extruded....the pellets shown through the hole next to the tape measure...and granulated. Usually the vapors went through the course extruded pellets first and then into the granular.
The problem with using carbon that is earmarked for water filtration is that teh surface pore structure is too tight. It absorbs fuel vapor and does not give it back up readily. That means in short order this thing becomes non functional again.
I'll see if any of my connections can list you the proper grade of carbon and where to get it. Ray |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4532 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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my only issue with the stock set up is the location and length of the expansion/condensation lines.
the later ones are better with steel lines.
but it still doesn't seem like a good place to to have gas vapors and liquid gas--especially in the event of an accident.
on my 71KG i just eliminated the whole under dash line and ran it straight to the expansion can.
i never thought of changing the carbon until i found thesamba though. _________________ 71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ray,
thanks so much for you information and contributions. If you can do anything to get that information to me, I'd really appreciate it, as it would help everyone. I'm all about the facts, man. The real deal, not just running a procedure with inferior supplies 'cause that's what's available!
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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66foot Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2006 Posts: 394 Location: Pacific Grove, California
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Webwalker - Ray - Bookwus:
Excellent information.
I really like the idea of the bung hole and the bung plug.
You guys have just written another chapter in the VW recycling handbook.
In regard to the the bung plug grabbing the perforated plate and screen. I believe that the plate, the screen and the spring are part of the volume compensator, which allows for a constant compression on the bed of carbon pellets. This allows the carbon pellets to be held in place and reduces any breakdown in their size due to vibration.
Also, the volume compensator is probably designed to allow for a small air gap which allows the vapors or purge air to disperse and flow evenly through the carbon bed.
However, these design issues are minor compared to 30-year old carbon pellets.
A possible source for Pelletized or Granular Activated Automotive Carbon.
Pat (66foot) _________________ "The perfect race car crosses the finish line in first place and then falls to pieces."
Ferdinand Porsche |
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devnull34 Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2009 Posts: 95
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Did my canister last night - thanks for the writeup! |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Fantastic! Please post pictures of your work to encourage other that this is do-able and easy!
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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devnull34 Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2009 Posts: 95
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't look great on the outside, but the insides are brand new. I was able to pop off the top without breaking any of the tabs. I used the same charcoal pellets used in a very old gasoline generator as I read that the aquarium pellets weren't really the same deal.
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GatorJZ Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 473 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Did you contact them for pricing and minimum order requirements? The pelletized activated carbon looks ideal. I've also read the aquarium stuff is not the best for this application.
Edit: I just emailed the company and will post their response. |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Gator.
While the aquarium carbon isn't ideal (as Ray explained) it does work.
I would prefer to get our mitts on any thing closer to industrial GAC that IS intended for this application. I guess we'll have to find someone who will sell in batches less than a metric buttload.
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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flierbob Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2008 Posts: 538 Location: Silverdale WA
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 69 that had some sort of vapor dump but the PO put a vented gas cap on, I can tell because there is a fuel stain on the right front quarter. I checked at the local flaps for a check valve (#25 I think) and they didn't have a clue.
Anyone know where to get one give me a PM, I am like the 68, there isnt much to go on.
Bob |
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