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Carbon Canister Refresh - Howto
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decobugma07
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I adapt the canister to my 68 bug?
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, as long as you're willing to replace your fuel tank to a later style and add all of the ancillary parts required.
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Bookwus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya web,

Thanks for the props!

I'm glad to see you formalize this procedure with pictures (and that Glenn made it a sticky). For quite a few years now I've tried to sell the idea that an intact M26 system is good for the driver, good for the environment, and good for the engine. It seems that some folks have a hard time getting their head around that idea. Thanks for making the process easier to understand.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're very welcome. And that publication we discussed....I'm going to take a swing at it and see if I can get any traction. Doubtful, considering their audience, but I can certainly try.
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Bookwus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya web,

webwalker wrote:
You're very welcome. And that publication we discussed....I'm going to take a swing at it and see if I can get any traction. Doubtful, considering their audience, but I can certainly try.


Yeah, the speed and custom set. But what the hey! You're sure not to get it published if you don't give it a try. So go ahead and submit.
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tailwaggers
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is part #25 in the diagram? A check valve?
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tundrawolf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. The tapered plug is called a "pipe plug", because of the taper it can be threaded into a pipe, etc. Dude, great write up. Would deactivated powder work? Or does it have to be granulated?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tailwaggers wrote:
What is part #25 in the diagram? A check valve?


IIRC, it is a check valve, but it is for a later year. The 1972 model that I rebuilt did not have it, nor have I seen a model with it. (Though that in itself may tell you how often I've seen a complete M26 late model system that was completely intact!)

M
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tundrawolf wrote:
P.S. The tapered plug is called a "pipe plug", because of the taper it can be threaded into a pipe, etc. Dude, great write up. Would deactivated powder work? Or does it have to be granulated?


You wouldn't want to use powder, as it would clog too easily; air from the fan housing needs to pass easily through the canister. One test item that I will include in a future edit of this procedure is to plug the small inlet and BLOW through one of the large inlets. You should be able to blow through with little resistance. The powder would tend to pack together, causing blockage or dead spots or channels to form for the air so that only a tiny portion of the surface area of the charcoal would be exposed to the inlet gases, and outlet air.

See the wiki writeup on activated charcoal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon

The stuff that you want to buy is GAC (Granulated Activated Charcoal). If you go to a Petsmart or PETCO, you'll find GAC in half gallon containers. Shake before you buy if you can't see in to the container. The particle size (as you can see from my pictures) is about the size of rice krispies. If it sounds like sand in the container, stay away from it. That's powder, and it doesn't present enough space between the particles for air to travel easily.

Thanks for your clarification on the 'pipe plug.' I bought mine at Lowes in the plumbing section after looking over good candidates in the brass section. The taper on the galvanized part is what sold me on this, as I knew it would have to both thread easily in to a pretty rudely drilled hole, but also be able to grab the screen on the inside and thread through that too, without pushing it further in to the body.

I'm considering doing another canister and producing better pictures to boot. Thanks for the interest.
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tundrawolf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I am one of those guys that rips the emissions stuff off of any car he can get away with it on. After reading your article I realize how important that can is. I even told a friend to rip that canister out of there because it's worthless-good thing he didn't heed my advice.

The reason I know the official name for the pipe plug is because I searched far and wide to find something that would plug the hole in the underside of my motorcycle after it hit a rock. I ended up with a "Recessed pipe plug", which is what you put into your canister, but without the square bulge. Instead it has a hex recess for an allen wrench.

Thanks again for the writeup!
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

webwalker wrote:
The primary kudos should go to Bookwus who has been PM'ing the howto to anyone who would listen for several years now. My procedure is a minor adaptation of his method.

I figured I'd throw this out there in a more 'in your face' manner to try to get Dubbers to *think* before they start tearing things off their car.

M


I've been beating on people for years to quit taking the charcoal cannister off their vehicles. Its just stupid. Thanks for posting this.

One problem though.....DO NOT use aquarium charcoal. It is not the correct product and will do little for fuel vapors.
There are many grades and types ofactivated chrcoal. The activated chrcoal for aquariums is granular and usually has a fairly high "iodine" number.....for water filtration. It does not have the surface area necessary for vapor filtration. It also does not allow proper vapor flow.
The charcoal in the evaporative emmissions cannister is a form of extruded activated charcoal.
Take some of it out and measure the particles....and then contact one of the many carbon companies on this continent.....and ask them what you should use. They will tell you what grade of extruded carbon it is....and what type of carbon is prefered for hydrocarbon absorption....ie...lignite, peat, bituminous, coconut etc.

Oh...by the way...there are two different grades of carbon in "most" cannisters. I say "most"...because there was a lot of variation from early to late. You show them both in your pictures. That cannister had both extruded....the pellets shown through the hole next to the tape measure...and granulated. Usually the vapors went through the course extruded pellets first and then into the granular.

The problem with using carbon that is earmarked for water filtration is that teh surface pore structure is too tight. It absorbs fuel vapor and does not give it back up readily. That means in short order this thing becomes non functional again.
I'll see if any of my connections can list you the proper grade of carbon and where to get it. Ray
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borninabus
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my only issue with the stock set up is the location and length of the expansion/condensation lines.

the later ones are better with steel lines.
but it still doesn't seem like a good place to to have gas vapors and liquid gas--especially in the event of an accident.

on my 71KG i just eliminated the whole under dash line and ran it straight to the expansion can.
i never thought of changing the carbon until i found thesamba though.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray,

thanks so much for you information and contributions. If you can do anything to get that information to me, I'd really appreciate it, as it would help everyone. I'm all about the facts, man. The real deal, not just running a procedure with inferior supplies 'cause that's what's available!

M
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66foot Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Webwalker - Ray - Bookwus:

Excellent information.

I really like the idea of the bung hole and the bung plug.

You guys have just written another chapter in the VW recycling handbook.

In regard to the the bung plug grabbing the perforated plate and screen. I believe that the plate, the screen and the spring are part of the volume compensator, which allows for a constant compression on the bed of carbon pellets. This allows the carbon pellets to be held in place and reduces any breakdown in their size due to vibration.

Also, the volume compensator is probably designed to allow for a small air gap which allows the vapors or purge air to disperse and flow evenly through the carbon bed.

However, these design issues are minor compared to 30-year old carbon pellets.

A possible source for Pelletized or Granular Activated Automotive Carbon.


Pat (66foot)
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devnull34
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did my canister last night - thanks for the writeup!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic! Please post pictures of your work to encourage other that this is do-able and easy!

M
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devnull34
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't look great on the outside, but the insides are brand new. Smile I was able to pop off the top without breaking any of the tabs. I used the same charcoal pellets used in a very old gasoline generator as I read that the aquarium pellets weren't really the same deal.

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GatorJZ
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

66foot wrote:
Webwalker - Ray - Bookwus:
A possible source for Pelletized or Granular Activated Automotive Carbon.

Pat (66foot)


Did you contact them for pricing and minimum order requirements? The pelletized activated carbon looks ideal. I've also read the aquarium stuff is not the best for this application.

Edit: I just emailed the company and will post their response.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Gator.

While the aquarium carbon isn't ideal (as Ray explained) it does work.

I would prefer to get our mitts on any thing closer to industrial GAC that IS intended for this application. I guess we'll have to find someone who will sell in batches less than a metric buttload.

M
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 69 that had some sort of vapor dump but the PO put a vented gas cap on, I can tell because there is a fuel stain on the right front quarter. I checked at the local flaps for a check valve (#25 I think) and they didn't have a clue.
Anyone know where to get one give me a PM, I am like the 68, there isnt much to go on.
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