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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51146
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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 Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Looking good Dred, do you have a windshield to try in the hole loosely? Now's the time to move things if it doesn't look like it's going to fit.
If you can get your hands on a leaf from a car or truck spring it'll fit behind the nose and act as a backup while you hammer the welds down in the shrunken areas, a helper sitting in the walkthrough with a foot on each end is how to hold it.
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Chubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2003
Posts: 334
Location: Clermont, Central Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Professor Dred wrote: |
My camera really picks it out well.
I will just say, lesson learned. Take your time and let the darn thing cool, even if it takes hours to do.
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Using a camera to take pictures of body work is an idea I use all of the time. You would be amazed at how well any warping, nibs, orangepeel, low or high spots or thin paint show up when photographed with a good flash. You can see flaws on the screen you would never spot in real life.
I use an air blaster to cool while welding. It helps a lot and keeps temps localized. As soon as it cools enough for my shield to undarken, I hit it with air for 15-20 seconds. I don't like using water, it can cause lots of flash rusting at those temps.
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Chubber
'71 Deluxe 7 Passenger Bus (Resto thread)
'72 Fastback
'74 Super Beetle Convertible (Sold) |
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Blaubus
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Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Professor Dred wrote: |
anybody have an opinion on cutting it back out and redoing it?...
Is it possible I could cut it out again and put a new piece in there to fix it? |
trust me when i tell you there is nothing you can do with weld to keep a broad flat panel from warping. and unless you do it with oxy/acet, there is no way it will be malleable enough near the weld to beat it to near flatness afterward. also, i should take the opportunity to bust the myth that warpage wont occur if you let it cool completely between small bead length applications.
but there is a way to avoid the whole warpage mess:
you could cut it out and use urethane autobody adhesive to attach it. these adhesives really are superstrong, but you have to control conditions very carefully- low humidity, 70F, NEW 36 grit disc to scratch up the metal, DRY compressed air from a "dust off" can to remove metal dust after scratching it up, etc...
it would have to be clamped and there are few clamps that can even reach that far in, so the common method is to use screws- flat head #4-40s, countersunk into the outer surface. choose the urethane with the longest set up time. norton speedgrip makes a 45 minute. i used their 15 minute and almost didnt have enough time to tighten all the screws!
here is a pic of where i set up to use it on my nose:
shown here is the backer panel method. you can also just overlap. either way, you must have at least 1" overlap. hence what you see in my backer panel photo is a grey backer 2 1/4 inches wide. the backer method requires filler only to cover the seam and screwheads, which are ground flush
i also had my own problems with the emblem mounting area which i solved with adhesive. here are the photos from both inside and outside:
the white around the donor metal is epoxy primer- keeps rust from growing on the bare metal surrounding the donor. if rust starts there it will grow under the adhesive years from now and push it off the nose.
although i sink the screwheads, i leave them just slightly proud because otherwise the metal is barely thick enough to keep the nut on the backside from bottoming out against the head. i just grind it flush later.
BTW, i still have an unmolested emblem mounting area donor which you could use as a pattern for drilling holes in the right location. unfortunately, it has some bad wrinkles that wouldnt make it a good donor for glue in. if you want to acquire it, just speak up... |
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Sugarbear
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Dred, did you get your floor pan from Mr. Gerison? Does he still make them? havin a florida bus i found the same swiss cheese front pan!
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Feelin the ground with my feet & fixin my bus.
~72 9 passenger bus |
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Professor Dred
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Looking good Dred, do you have a windshield to try in the hole loosely?
If you can get your hands on a leaf from a car or truck spring it'll fit behind the nose and act as a backup while you hammer the welds down in the shrunken areas, a helper sitting in the walkthrough with a foot on each end is how to hold it. |
Thanks busdaddy. I fit the windshield in and it's as perfect a fit as it could be. I was concerned about that as well as there really was no room for adjustment.
Dansvans, that is an interesting concept but I think I'll go the lame way with the body filler. I'll just consider replacing the nose in the future. I need the welding experience.
And thanks for the offer of the emblem holes. I actually have an emblem that was given to me and I want to use it. The thing is, it has two holes drilled in it for mounting, so I've already drilled the holes in the nose for it and welded on two nuts on the back side. Maybe I should have said something before about that. It was a custom thing for me. I think you can see it in a previous pic here.
Sugarbear, yes I got the floorpan from Mr. Gerson. I think I saw a few more sitting next to him at the Bug Jam a few weeks ago. Be ready for some work if you take it on. You will learn much! haha
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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Sugarbear
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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January will be da time for me! financial aid  , it looks like a huge mountain for sure! but my floor bored turned out to be likes yours... ( swiss cheese!)
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Feelin the ground with my feet & fixin my bus.
~72 9 passenger bus |
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Professor Dred
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I highly recommend Gerson's metal work. It was nearly a drop in and weld deal. Err, well, I had to pound a bit but I'm 100% happy with the fit.
The hardest part was cleaning out the old metal and rust.
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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Professor Dred
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys, making progress on finishing up the nose panel work. As you may know I tore down all the electrical connections, cleaned them up and put everything back together.
Had an issue with the front right headlight that has been resolved but after testing everything else out, seems something is wrong with my wipers.
Well, I don't have the glass back in yet or the wiper arms installed but when I have the lights on and I turn on the wipers (low or high) and the wipers go through their cycle and come back to the resting position, every light turns off. It seems like maybe something is grounding out in the resting position, but when they cycle again, the lights come back on. Its only a split second but I can imagine how annoying it will be when I'm driving at night in the rain.
Anybody have an idea what may be causing this? Bad wiper motor? Maybe I missed a ground somewhere like I did before for the headlights?
Thanks
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51146
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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You've got a wire from the lights connected to the wiper motor or switch. The wiper circuit grounds the power lead to the wiper motor when it's parked for dynamic braking, sounds like that's gotten involved with the light circuit and is shorting it.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Professor Dred
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| You've got a wire from the lights connected to the wiper motor or switch. The wiper circuit grounds the power lead to the wiper motor when it's parked for dynamic braking, sounds like that's gotten involved with the light circuit and is shorting it. |
Good call. As far as I can recall though the majority of the wiper switch's wires go directly to the motor. But there is at least one or two other wires that come from the fuse panel and another that I think is a ground that connects to two other switches on the dash. I'll pull the switch out and check it when I get home. But if that's the case, it seems the lights would constantly have an issue or blow a fuse or something. They only briefly blink when the wipers are in the down position. I forgot to mention too that the dashboard lights blink as well. You may be right BusDaddy.
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51146
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Correct, there's the black one from the fuse box and a brown ground both going to the switch, if you have that ground connected to a light terminal somewhere you'd get that blink as the wiper motor passes park.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Professor Dred
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Correct, there's the black one from the fuse box and a brown ground both going to the switch, if you have that ground connected to a light terminal somewhere you'd get that blink as the wiper motor passes park. |
Alrighty, I traced all the wires from the switch. All but one got to the wiper motor. The 'one' is a ground wire and it is not directly connected to the light switch. Now, here's the kicker. When I remove the wiper switch from the dashboard and turn it on with the lights on, everything is normal. As soon as I put it back on the dash, the blink starts. So it seems the switch is grounding on the dash, but this isn't making any sense to me.
As far as I can tell, all the wires are hooked up correctly for both the wiper and the headlight switch. What's the thoughts on this now? I guess I could put a shim between the wiper switch and the dash but would rather find out what the issue is.
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51146
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Don't do that, there's a simple solution somewhere here and a bandaid fix will come back and bite you later.
Start from scratch and remove all the wires from the wiper switch and clean up the switch with brake cleaner and a tooth brush, now you'll be able to see the teeny tiny terminal numbers beside each terminal, reconnect it according to the diagram. 31b is the brake circuit to the motor, it's brown but may have a tracer of some color on it, it's the wire that comes from the insulated area on the motor, don't confuse it with 31 (also brown) which is the obvious ground terminal on the motor case and goes to the body above the heater tree. #30 on the switch is the black wire from fuse #11 (yeah I know it should be red but that's the way VW did it, if it's labelled #15 instead it's still the same circuit in this particular case).
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Chubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2003
Posts: 334
Location: Clermont, Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Dred, how is the project coming?
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Chubber
'71 Deluxe 7 Passenger Bus (Resto thread)
'72 Fastback
'74 Super Beetle Convertible (Sold) |
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blue72beetle
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Joined: April 23, 2008
Posts: 846
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome write up on the front floor. I'm going to need to do exactly this to my 71 one of these days.
I'll be spending a lot of time in this thread. 
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Professor Dred
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Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Makes me happy you guys are following and showing support. This has been quite a trek for me. But there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I have the nose just about complete. Still need to smooth it out just a little but the windshield is back in, and not after a struggle. I broke the original glass on the driver's side corner getting it back in, so I had safelite come out and install a new one. The dude got it almost all the way in and then started to struggle, so I helped him out. There is still a small gap on the passenger side top between the rubber and the metal. I bought the expensive german rubber from oeveedub and its great quality and a good fit other than that little section, but I think there is something else keeping it from going in. There was very little work done to that section so I can't figure out why its not setting correctly.
In the meantime, I am gearing up to move in a couple weeks. Not far from where I am now but all progress has stopped right now. At least its to the point that I can drive it to the new house instead of towing it.
I promise to take some pics of Rita over the weekend. I also have one metal piece that goes to part of the dash that I cannot find a reference to in the Bentley nor can I recall where it goes, so after I take a pic of it, I will need one of you kind peeps to help me out with that one.
Oh, I also changed out the jalousie windows in the middle to the slider windows. I like the look of them and was able to get those in by myself, which surprised the heck out of me. 
Busdaddy, I still haven't been able to trace the issue with wiper/headlight blinking, but that has been low on the priority due to life getting in the way..... {in Homer voice} stupid life
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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Saraj
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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just chopped out a big section of cab floor out of my 68. as usual it's worst that I expected so now tracking down a UK supplier for a Klassic fab floor.
This is a great guide, thanks |
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Saraj wrote: |
just chopped out a big section of cab floor out of my 68. as usual it's worst that I expected so now tracking down a UK supplier for a Klassic fab floor.
This is a great guide, thanks |
Send Gerson a PM.
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If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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Professor Dred
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 258
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys/gals.
Just thought I would let you know I'm still around. I moved back in Feb. and still haven't had a chance to get back to work on Rita as all my time is now spent fixing odd things around the new place. On a good note, I was able to drive her the 30 blocks to the new home without a hitch.
Well, other than needing to rebuild her tired old engine. Anyhow, it will probably be a bit longer before I get back to work on her, but I have plans to have her in top running order by April for the Wanee Fest.
As far as the front end goes, I just need to add more filler to the top turn signal holes and smooth it out, then paint.. then I probably need to pay attention to the brake system and finally the engine.
She's been waiting patiently and I have been sure to start her up every now and then to keep things oiled up.
I'll get back to you soon!
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'71 Westfalia Weekender - 'Rita'
1600 Single Carb
Rita's MPlate |
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TomWesty
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Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update. One of my favorite threads to follow.
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