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djkeev
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Interesting tidbit to be aware of. When I was removing my 69 Ghia body I removed the back wheels to access the bolt on the chassis into the body.
Both sides were buried in 41 years of mud and dried road crap. I scraped and chiseled and finally revealed the bolt heads.
They should be 17mm hex. The left side was indeed a 17mm.
On the Right side, 17 mm spun effortlessly, 16 mm had a very slight grab and a 15mm was too tight. I took a hammer and drove the 15 down on the hex and was able to remove it.
Note, I used a torch and heated the frame before even attempting to unscrew these rusty bolts. They came out with no trouble after doing that. Heat is your best friend when restoring and old car!!
The rust had eaten at the hex for 41 years and reduced it down from 17mm to 15mm!!
In the photo you can clearly see the left is a full 17mm and the right is the reduced size hex. The shadow shows it even better!! Notice my "memory" bags there as well, everything labeled and bagged for future reinstallation.
Dave
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djkeev
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hpw
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djkeev
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John Moxon 
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gregmporter
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Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Quick tip... Don't remove the tar board on the trans tunnel... Just leave it in place. The metal under there will be perfect and there is no really good replacement for that tar board. I made the mistake of removing it only to find perfectly painted factory metal underneath.
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1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Thanks,
The hump running the length of the chassis was carpet with a jute type insulation. I may keep that insulation but it is stuck to the carpet. The tarboard around the shift linkage cover and the chassis number I will leave on as you suggest. I did wonder about it though and you are right, the hump exposed under the carpet is perfect and I won't even be painting it.
I am on a rust remediation campaign. This won't be a perfect restoration for I am changing from a Coupe to a Convertible. The entire drive train and chassis will be 69 stock, I've decided to keep the Auto Stick Shift as well. The unit functions an all four gears though doesn't shift right now. The clutch servo works fine, arm moves, will hold a vacuum for a long long time. The control unit I suspect may have be compromised somehow. The small vacuum line holds vacuum but I cannot get the large line to hold vacuum....or is it not supposed to?
Thanks for the tips!!
Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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So, a most beautiful Sunday in October!!
Had to fix the furnace at work so that took till 11 am. Took a ride in the Super Vert to enjoy the sunshine and picked up lunch for myself and the wife (who was busy doing papers for her master's degree).
I then went out to the garage, cleaned out the inches of muck left on the floor from removing the body and cleaning the floor pans then pulled the engine (really really really easy after the body is off!!) and then pulled the axles and the Auto Stick Tranny as well. (also quite easy)
You know, I wasn't going to pull the tranny. Just another task to do and I'd like to have this chassis done by next weekend. Then I thought, if someone posted here that they went this far and did not pull the tranny I'd ridicule them for quitting at the finish line!! So.... I pulled the tranny, it was the right thing to do.
I also unbolted and removed the metal brake lines (except the two rear wheels), keeping the bends and profiles intact so I can duplicate them. Pulled the Pedal cluster and the Master Cylinder as well.
For fun I cut open some flexible brake lines to see what shape they were in after 41 years. Most had a very small opening like the line on the right in the photo, maybe 1/16 th if that big. Others were totally swollen closed like the left line.
How do you like that model's hand !?! I paid big bucks for a hand model for this shoot.  Sorry a little fuzzy but I was too close. The distance between my head and my arms is only so far!
Tomorrow I'll pressure wash all the grease off and then flip it on it's side and remove the undercoating on the bottom.
After that I'll pull the front beam to check for rust where it mounts onto the front chassis. They are known to rust in that area quite a lot. I'll clean it up and POR 15 that area.
I am still thrilled that I've yet to find any significant cancer on this chassis. It's looking more and more like a wire brush and POR 15 job with almost no hassles.
Here is the result of 4 hours of work today......
(I tried bigger pictures this time....it worked!!!!)
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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Nepenthe88
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Joined: September 03, 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Oooh!!! Don't flip the chassis over, just slide on under it like I did. Sure, the goop falls on your face, but it comes off in the shower 
Glad to see you're in full on production mode! I can't wait till you get to the little nooks and crannies of the trailing arms/torsion bars. I thought that part was FUN... glad you're gonna get to share in it!!
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Another BEAUTIFUL October day!!!
I decided to take the 69 Chassis for a tour. Pushed it out of the garage and hooked up the tow bar. (actually photo is after it's bath drying in the sun)
Pulled it over to work for a good cleaning with the pressure washer followed by degreasers and finally a hot water rinse!!
A little scrubbing with a brush as well and all that icky grime that has been building up for 41 years is all but GONE!! What didn't wash off are the gobs of stray under coating!! I'm beginning to HATE undercoating!! It's only good point I've yet found is that it is easy to identify original parts of the car on the chassis. IF it has under coating, it's a 69 part! Look at the Drag link, dripping with the crud!
After a good blow off with the leaf blower and a good set in the sun it moved into the garage and with little effort I tipped it on edge so I can easily work on the bottom of the pan, remove the under coating, wire brush the rust and put on a coat or two of POR 15.
I think the Super Vert is relaxing as he sees arch enemy Ghia get slowly torn apart!! Where's the threat? (little does Super know his long term fate!! Heh Heh Heh!!)
Ah, my inventory of Brad Penn oil makes an appearance! (crappy photo, sorry)
What's my beef with under coating you may ask? Well in one word... RUST!!! What good has this goo really done?
Dave
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djkeev
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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So, I'm in the garage in the summer like heat and humidity of late October.....wait! LATE OCTOBER!! What the Heck!?!?! ........ AL !!!!!!!!
Anyway, I'm hating the undercoating as I use a torch and putty knife scrapping it off making an AMAZING gooey mess!! It actually is working quite well and then I clean it up with lacquer thinner before wire brushing.
As I was saying, hating undercoating when I saw a pattern. Anywhere that the undercoating was applied to, not only applied to but thickly applied to and it wasn't damaged has brand new metal underneath.
The problem in with the sparingly applied product. Some parts only have a few stray gobs on it and some have none.
Guess where the most rust is? Uh Huh....... where the undercoating was damaged or poorly applied.
I am now thinking that to have a 41 year old pan with very minimal rust in the North East rust belt is probably due to this sticky goo. I hate to say it but it did it's job.
I will NOT be reapplying it but this pan made it 41 years without a garage or any maintenance to the chassis.
They probably should have had it checked and reapplied, but that only happens in a perfect world!
So now I'm hating the 18 year old kid that applied this stuff with his boss saying "easy, easy boy, don't overdo it!!" Of course that 18 yr old kid in 1969 is now...... ummmm 18 + 41.......= ......59 years old!!! His boss is probably dead by now.
Ah well, dinner calls and then back to lacquer thinner and rags.
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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So, I'll embarrass myself, I'm old enough to know better!!
I'm cleaning the tar residue off of the bottom of the floor pans and related areas from being undercoated 41 years ago.
The propane torch did a great job softening the coating and being able to scrape sheets of it off.
The lacquer thinner was removing the residue but DARN! my hands were getting tired from rubbing....
Hmmmmmmm...... The torch softens the tar.........the lacquer thinner dissolves the tar..........if the tar were soft the process would become EASY!!
So, dummy that I am, I took the torch and heated up a section until the tar went soft and changed to that nice shiny black, took a paper towel soaked in lacquer thinner, went over it and POOFF!!!! it was gone!
Wonderful!! Off I go heat, wipe heat wipe, many many clean towels down the road and the process gets a little relaxed.....heat....still heating move rag to wipe and WHOOOSH!!!!!  I'm holding a ball of fire in my hand!!!
EXCITEMENT!!!! I toss it to the floor and put a piece of wood I had nearby to smother the flames
I've got 2 fire extinguishers in the garage but really hate to squeeze that trigger unless I have to!! $$$$ 
I think I made a funny little noise much like Doc made on Back To The Future when he set his model on fire in the Wild West while showing Marty how he was going to build up the speed he needs
No harm done, I had on industrial rubber gloves that came up almost to my elbow, so no burns. Just some excitement for the evening.
So, I continue on being very careful...... never touch lacquer soaked rag with flame
Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: |
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OK, Let's start figuring how much I'm spending here and time invested, it will be interesting and maybe a bit depressing!
I'll edit this often and add prices, I need to pull some receipts! I'm also rounding off for ease of calculating.
69 Ghia $300
Tow Bar $100
Time to get it home 4 hours and a little gasoline
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70 Ghia $600
Trip to get it home, hotels, food, gas $450
Won't figure time to travel to WV and back, that was fun time!
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Car Cover $90
Move 69 Ghia into garage 1/2 hour
Tune up parts, Plugs, cap, rotor, valve cover gasket, oil gaskets, oil $ 50
Time to adjust valves, check compression, change oil, adjust points, install cap and rotor, remove 3" of mouse nest 3 hours.
Carburetor rebuild kit, fresh air hose $ 25
Carb Cleaner $ 32
Extra fan belt Continental $ 7
Time to rebuild carb 2 hours
Get it running and adjust and just smile while it ran 2 hours
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Remove all body bolts, include removing fuel tank, fighting rear bolts behind wheels, and disconnecting all wires and hoses. 3 hours
Remove body and set on Concrete blocks 3/4 hour
Remove tar boards, wire brush and clean interior of pan with lacquer thinner. 3 hours
Wire Brush Wheels $ 30
Thinner and paper towels $ 10
Remove Master cylinder, pedals and brake lines from pan 1 1/2 hours
Remove engine, axle shafts and Transaxle 1 1/2 hours
Pressure wash / degrease chassis and transmission 2 hours
Degreaser $ 12
Tip chassis on edge, remove undercoating, clean with lacquer thinner 2 1/2 hours
Lacquer thinner, paper towels, putty knife (broke the first one) $ 20
POR 15 and prep solution $ 85
Purchase new Fuel line to install $ 42
Purchase new transmission oil seals $ 35
10/28
Wire brush, POR 15 Marine Clean, POR 15 Metal Ready, Rinse with water, blow dry Chassis top and bottom. 1 1/2 Hours.
Paint chassis POR 15 top and Bottom 2 Hrs
10/29
Push Vert into garage
Remove drivers seat and multiple floor layers 2 hrs
Pick up new poly coated metal brake line and line bender tool $ 55
10/30
Remove Passenger seat, clean up floor boards
Remove carpet and salvage for pattern use 1 1/2 hours
*******************************************************
Total Time, October 2010 -- 30 3/4 Hours
Total $$ October 2010 -- $493
*******************************************************
November 2010
------------------------
11/1 Pick up Bubble Flare Tool $30
11/3 Begin body removal on Vert, remove fuel tank, unbolt drivers side pan bolts and LR chassis bolt, 1 1/2 hrs.
11/5 Remove soft top frame and glass 3/4 hours
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:48 am; edited 10 times in total |
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gregmporter
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Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: |
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HAHA... I started keeping track early in my restoration. After about a year's worth of tracking I decided I didn't want any "evidence" to hang out for my wife to discover!!! I think I am approaching 5 digits and I haven't got paint on it yet. I've aquired some killer tools in the process though!
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http://www.youtube.com/user/gregmporter
1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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sputnick60
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djkeev
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Nepenthe88
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Joined: September 03, 2010
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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wow! Lots to reply to...
I noticed the same thing on my chassis. Anywhere the tarboards were, or where there was solid undercoat was shiny brand new deliciousness. But where it failed, it did tons of damage! So... I agree... I don't think it's worth putting back on. I'm gonna do straight "por-15" (i'm actually using chassis saver, but...), and figure I'll crawl under the car 2x/year and touch up the spots that need touched up.
also... remember when I said "everyone has to light a beetle/VW on fire once in their life" well, I think your lacquer rag counts-- I figure it's kinda like getting a flu shot or something-- now we're immune
The only thing I think you did wrong was to start adding up the cost so soon!!! I'm pretty sure I'm around 8k right now, but it COULD be more... And I CERTAINLY don't need any more pressure on me to get this car done 
keep up the good work!
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Nepenthe88 wrote: |
wow! Lots to reply to...
I noticed the same thing on my chassis. Anywhere the tarboards were, or where there was solid undercoat was shiny brand new deliciousness. But where it failed, it did tons of damage! So... I agree... I don't think it's worth putting back on. I'm gonna do straight "por-15" (i'm actually using chassis saver, but...), and figure I'll crawl under the car 2x/year and touch up the spots that need touched up.
also... remember when I said "everyone has to light a beetle/VW on fire once in their life" well, I think your lacquer rag counts-- I figure it's kinda like getting a flu shot or something-- now we're immune
The only thing I think you did wrong was to start adding up the cost so soon!!! I'm pretty sure I'm around 8k right now, but it COULD be more... And I CERTAINLY don't need any more pressure on me to get this car done
keep up the good work! |
Yep, I agree about the undercoating.
The Record keeping? I'm old, if I don't write it down NOW it will be gone forever!!
I wire brushed the entire chassis and then Sprayed POR Marine Clean on the Chassis. This stuff acts like PAINT REMOVER!! the factory paint that was still holding tight and shiny suddenly let loose of the metal! It smells like Fantastic or similar but is very aggressive. Here is a picture of how much paint was still on the chassis BEFORE Marine Clean was applied. (I should have rotated this one first!! OOOPS)
So, I wire brushed again and the entire chassis came up virtually paintless and shiny.....Pretty!!
I rinsed off the Marine Clean and let it dry a bit and then sprayed on POR 15 Metal Ready (I know, I fell for the system but I am only going to do this ONCE!!!!!!)
The metal prep I keep moist for about 1/2 hour and then sprayed it off with a hose and blew it dry with a leaf blower and compressed air. It is currently sitting in the Late October sun (71 degrees, sunny, windy) drying out good on its side.
I am amazed what this stuff did, the shiny metal is now a dull grey color and looks like I galvanized it!!
Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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So, chassis is all wire brushed and cleaned, ready for a coat of POR 15 before I do any cutting and welding repairs on it.
I found a few small pin holes in the pan, mostly where the jack point welds on, no concern. A few up by the drivers seat which are big enough to weld shut and then about 4 of the tiniest smallest holes behind the drivers seat. Hmmm Not sure what to do there but I'm not overly concerned.
What bothers me is this spot. It is drivers side just below where the body meets the pan and the two bolts hold the body down on the frame head.
The rust has gotten in between and mushroomed the weld open! I'm thinking of digging it out, dremel it clean and pinch it together with vise grips and then reweld the seam.
Thoughts????
I also posted the passenger side, no rust, this is what the drivers side SHOULD look like!!
Dave
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