video of my engine cranking....

[Bruskyvw]

I know I have posted a lot of topics throughout the past few months about my good old van not starting and have narrowed it down it most likely being my distributor? or something? also after I made the video i did a voltage test on the battery and it was reading 11.75v so something is not making it turn over at all on its own thus making me having to jump it with my other car to even make it turn over.

Explanation of what I've done so far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRL-CyxdKp4&feature=quicklist

view from the engine as it cranks over: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDQ1HHDMwk&feature=quicklist
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[stevey88]

Your starter is not turning the engine over fast enough. Check the cable from the battery positive to the starter, the cable from battery neg to chassis and The cable from the engine to chassis and clean them all. There could be something more than this but you have to fix this first.
_________________
Steve

87 Westfalia full camper 4 speed

[?Waldo?]

X2, not cranking fast enough. Either power to starter, ground paths back to battery or the starter itself.

[Bruskyvw]

will do thanks a bunch! tomorrow we see!
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[Wildthings]

What is the voltage at your battery while cranking? What is the voltage at your starter while cranking? What is your charging voltage?

A fully charged battery that's been sitting for a few minutes should run about 12.5 volts. If jumping helps it is probably a bad battery or charging system.

[ftp2leta]

Automatic?

It's no space shuttle stuff Forget what your checking, it's volatage/amp related. Are you charging??? Did you replace the starter?

1)- If you have jump started the battery it's not this one.
2)- remove battery, check the ground to chassis. Remove this one and clean it.
3)- Go under the van, in front of the transmission, find the transmission mount, just beside there is a breaded wire, remove, clean.

If that doesn't work, time to check the starter connection, unplug battery ground, go under the van, find starter, unplug the main big + wire, clean it.

Time to test the starter itself: You need to jump start the starter, spare battery, jump start cable, hook the jump start red to the main + on starter (tricky), black to any part of the starter or even transmission. Now, the tricky part is to hook a small wire in between the main + at starter and the little flat connector on the starter where the red/black stripe wire is. Go out and plug spare/jump battery... does it turn over faster. This is to make sure the starter is good.

Ok, here is an easier way, simply bypass the main + wire to van battery. Use a jumper cable. Unplug ground on battery for safety, go to starter, un hook the main big + wire to starter, plug the jump cable on the starter.
Go in the van, plug the other end to the + of battery, hook the ground back, try.

If all that doesn't work, you may have an hydro lock, cylinders are filling with gas/coolant. A compression test is a must.

Automatic van are a pain in regard of voltage/amp circulation, the tranny itself being made of cast iron is not as good as aluminum, on top, the starter bolt are always rusty (bad ground) Sometime, just by cleaning the starter mating surface and bolt the starter will spin normally again.

It's all a question of good ground and good +. Of course, this is assuming that the starter is in working order!!!!!!!!!!

I think I wrote all that for nothing
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[jkeller]

[ftp2leta]

I find this topic interesting in many ways. I still don't know if the OP as an Auto or stick but the start problem seem te be more frequent on Auto.

My van as a high compression Subi, I never had issue with starting the van with a stock 2.1L starter, even in hot Mexico.

Lately, i had some, in my case i simply forgot to clean my transmission ground, easy fix. Charging was also faulty/weak, it's a 2 ways situation.

On each conversion I do I'm real severe on starter condition, at 90% I replace this one with a late model (the 2.1L is stronger than 1.9L). I sometime still have starting issue:
20% defective/weak new starter
30% bad transmission ground
20% bad ground at battery cassing
20% Bad main + from Battery to starter, can be the copper itself, corrosion at one end, broken wire (partial or not) A starter can frain as much as 400+ amp.
Remove 30% of the copper thickness and you will have starting issue.
10% is bad starter to transmission grounding.

The solenoid (+ from ign) is rarely a problem in slow start. This can be easily check by jumping the red wire directly on the ALT.

Where was I, yea, so we have more problem with automatic van, yep, so we had both starter tested for HP, Auto and stick, result, 20% more power with both auto tested. So no, the auto starter is not weaker like we thought.

Solution, new ground wire directly connected to starter lower bolt to frame. Reason, weak voltage passing through cast iron auto tranny.

Tested and re-tested both ways, with and without that added ground wire.

It also helping the stick starter, less but still, on top, better charging to battery.

Cost of fix, 15$

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Bruskyvw]

mine isnt an auto i have no idea where the ground is
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[?Waldo?]

The ground from chassis to tranny is in the same location on the manuals.

[ftp2leta]

Look at the picture i posted up there, find the little rusted bolt head, center of picture, a bit on the right, on the frame, where the 2 hoses cross, look carefully.

This is the transmission ground, automatic or stick. It's on that big cross member.

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[insyncro]

[Bruskyvw]

okay i just cleaned that ground all shiney now same with the battery ground still no go sounds the same as before
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[Bruskyvw]

is this the wire?

And is it this plug?

[/img]
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[camerahunter]

That's one of the wires from the starter. Was it unplugged or did you just unplug it?
Make sure your battery ground is unhooked and clean all the wire connections on the back of the starter.

David
_________________
1984 - Daily driver

[Bruskyvw]

i unplugged it haha and batt is disconnected the plug and terminal were extremely dusty
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[Bruskyvw]

still no go... should i clean the terminal braided parts also? or just the tips??
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[ftp2leta]

If you have remove the red wire from starter, yes it is your START wire, when you put the ign key at the crank position, this wire get 12V, it engage the starter. When the ign key goes back to ON (NOT START), 0 volt and starter disengage.

On the second picture you are showing a metal tab where the red wire goes, just on the right it's your big main + coming from battery. 13mm nuts, unplug battery ground (safety), remove that 13mm nut under the rubber boot and clean everything

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Bruskyvw]

Danke ben that will be the next thing I do ( i love having my laptop out here)
_________________
Current VWs: 2001 2.0 New Beetle 250k
1974 Super Beetle
Past vws: 1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Cedar)1991 Capri Green Wolfsburg Jetta 1978 Sage Green(Taiga) Transporter 2.0 FI (Paddy) 1980 Inca Brown Rabbit Diesel LS 1969 Karmann (funky weird blue that wasn't original) Ghia Autostick 1991 Bordeaux Red Vanagon GL 1992 Tornado Red GTI 8V

[foodeater]

One other thing that you may want to check is the condition of the large braided copper wire on the starter that runs out of the solenoid into the body of the starter. This wire was severely corroded on my van when I was having similar starting issues. In fact it broke in two when I inspected it.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP