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Welded and Balanced Fan Question
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chambersc
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Welded and Balanced Fan Question Reply with quote

Who do I get one from. I've been looking at upgrading mine since it is the original 1974 OEM fan. There are several listed here on The Samba, one os an OEM one that's been welded and balanced. Other's are obviously aftermarket. Anyone have suggestions on who has a good one?
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lupin..the..3rd
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, I have the original '79 fan in mine. I suspect most folks are running original fans. "If it aint broke, don't fix it" is how I look at it. Plus I don't rev the motor up too much. I thought the welded and balanced fans were more for high-rpm operation?

If the fan did start to come apart, it would make quite bit of noise I would think, slapping around against the shroud.
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Marv [UK]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lupin..the..3rd wrote:
I dunno, I have the original '79 fan in mine. I suspect most folks are running original fans. "If it aint broke, don't fix it" is how I look at it. Plus I don't rev the motor up too much. I thought the welded and balanced fans were more for high-rpm operation?

If the fan did start to come apart, it would make quite bit of noise I would think, slapping around against the shroud.


er, not quite, they'll make a noise and take half your ancilliary tinware with it. They are effectively 2 circular plates ( i know, i'm doing the simple analogy here) held together by vanes that are peened over only. there is only one bolt holding the lot onto the alternator / generator spindle. Any imbalance from losing a vane will quickly multiply and you'll be left with just the bolt and one plate on the charging aparatus spindle and quite a few rents elsewhere.

Technically, they are good to 5000 or so revs as with the stock fan belt, the belt will slip well before it reaches terminal angular velocity. people do rev them higher safe in the knowledge that their cooling won't get any more than the equivalent of 4000 ish revs but they can be seen as insurance.

If you want the best fan you can get, find a local shop with balancing equipment and get them to TIG your current fan without any wire, then balance it.
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sullydog93
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Brazilian fans Reply with quote

The Brazilian welded/balanced fans are fair.
The metal seems weaker/thinner(?). They will
warp if you look at them wrong. I should have
had someone use the TIG torch on my old German
fan.

My OG fan had some wobble, about .050-.060. The
new Brazilian was worse - .060 - .100 . I used the
manual method to true it up, it still has a little more
wobble than the OG fan.

I suppose the torque generated from inertia will flex
the fan toward the flywheel and minimize the realized
warpage anyway?
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Ragman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gene Berg welded fan by far is the best one I've seen. Worth every penny!

http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?cPath=19_494_2979&products_id=1254
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RIS
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one done by Jason Eggum on my 2332cc, very happy with the price and quality.

Link to his ad:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=850533

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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berg.

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Trust me... it's not pretty one a fan explodes... i've been there.
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1961bluebug
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also went with Jason Eggum´s OEM fan and just for my interest and safety I put the fan to my balancer. It was spot on and straight.
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Eaallred
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIS wrote:
I have one done by Jason Eggum on my 2332cc, very happy with the price and quality.

Link to his ad:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=850533


That's an incredible deal right there! The welds look fantastic too.

There are two 'brands' of OEM fans avaliable (or at least there was a few years ago when I worked in the industry). One with blue packaging, and what not appears to be bare metal, and one in a cardboard box that is bare metal. It looks like Jason is using the good fans which ROCKS! They're factory balanced and appear to be as nice as the German fans IMHO.

No way about it, that looks to be a great product, at an even better price. I don't really know Jason, but i'd stand behind what he's offering right there. Looks great!
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Brazilian fans Reply with quote

sullydog93 wrote:

I suppose the torque generated from inertia will flex
the fan toward the flywheel and minimize the realized
warpage anyway?

Did you smoke something before you posted this?
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm building a 2007 engine and decided to go with a welded and balanced fan. I read this thread and took Glenns recommendation and purchased the Gene Berg fan. To be honest I think I'm sorry I did. It looks just like other welded and balanced fans sold here on Thesamba classifieds for less than $100. It even came in the same box that's pictured in those ads. The problem isn't the quality, it's the cost. The price was $120 but by the time I paid the $5 handling fee, tax, and shipping the total came out to be $147. I think that's pretty steep. Now, I don't know if Berg actually modifies these fans in house but I suspect they buy them and just resell them apparently making a huge profit. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only fan i have personally seen that has exploded was a welded one.
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J DUB
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My unwelded OEM fan lasted 2 months before it let go. I picked up a welded Berg locally for $70 new. Should have grabbed 2 at that price. Its still holding with quite a few 7500 rpm shifts.
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junior55
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
Only fan i have personally seen that has exploded was a welded one.


I not impressed with the weldeds that I have seen either...

Most of the welded fans that I have looked at have the little tabs that protruded through the side plates, burned down FLAT leaving a butt weld.

Now relying strictly on the somewhat carbonized welds to hold everything and not the mechanical interlocking of the metal.
All it takes is one bad weld and its all gone.

I would think that some precision brazing would be better because of the
lower heat and a non-destructive flow AROUND the crimped structure
to be much stronger.

Welded fans are scarry looking to me personally and I have just relied on
the "loose belt slip" to keep the revs from getting to the destruction point.

There is nothing to be gained by a fan that CAN spin at 10 grand anyway.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, prob is when they weld it, it gets to hot. When metal gets that hot, it becomes brittle.
Dam'd if you do, dam'd of you don't kinda deals...
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pupjoint
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a Berg fan. but to be honest welded balanced fans aint rocket science, i am sure there are many good ones out there. Berg is good for many other parts, but welded fan is just a welded fan.

personally i prefer to use a german fan and get work done on it instead of brazilian ones.

then again quality may have changed now.
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jamestwo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I have a scat 0r bugpack fan that only has every other tab welded.

It was 65 or 70 bucks.

BTW, it's been to 6500.

My Berg has hit 7200 rpm several times. I bought it in 2000 and it's been on 4 or 5 motors.
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neil68
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: welded fan Reply with quote

I've been running a Berg welded fan, based on an OEM German fan. A buddy of mine is a very experienced mechanic, hot rodder and welder, and he was impressed with the Berg welding quality.

Having had to re-weld some other VW parts over the years (that came apart due to suspect welds), I think we all realize that there are varying degrees of workmanship...
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MAYHEM
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought mine from Kustom 1. OEM welded and balanced. The welds look good. Nice price http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=682698
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Sigurd
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible to have a balanced fan that still has some wobble to it?
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