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Gary Massin-Ball Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004 Posts: 377
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: Poor mans rack and pinion/drag link for beam type rail |
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Just thought I'd share what I did to make the damage stop on the front of my sand car on the cheap!
I was looking to get rid of the bump steer from the drivers side or my rail when landing airtime.
Thought of converting to rack and pinion but did not want to shell out the $$.
After many months of thinking about various way to do it I came up with this.
Taking the short left side tie rod off and adding a second right side tie rod from the left spindle to where it intersects with the right side tie rod drilling a hole and attaching the left to the right.
I broke the first set up (i knew it would) as I did not re-inforce the right side tie rod but it worked great!
These pics are of the second attempt with a re-inforced tie rod. I have 10 hours on this set up with lots of hard abuse and it works as hoped. I get zero bump steer and no bent or broken parts.
My avatar is part of the last test session. I hit that hill bout 5 time just like that with a passenger with no damage whatsoever.
Before the mods If the front end just came off the ground and back down hard The tie rod and or the steering arm on the left would bend. I even peeled the left tire off the rim once.
A jump like this would have destryed my front end before the mods!
Gary. |
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BugMan114 Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007 Posts: 3744 Location: Ellenwood, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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wait, i'm lost. forgive the newbish question, but how does that prevent the damage from occuring? it just seems like now all the force from both wheels is now on passener side tie rod, no? couldn't you have simply added bracing to both tie rods, and achieved the same effect? please explain . thanks _________________ 1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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takotruckin SUPER Baja
Joined: August 14, 2005 Posts: 2378 Location: stuck in fresno, ca
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting idea.
The problem with vw's is that the left tie rod is so short it will tend to bind when the suspension cycles, causing bumpsteer and in the OP's case, broken parts _________________ Member of the baja's that don't run club, for now!! |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Gary
Looks very similar to a ford truck with "twin I beam" front suspension. I have been thinking about a system that leaves the stock box where its at and mounting a idler arm in the middle with a short drag link between the box and idler arm and use two equal length tie rods to the steering arms on the spindles.
Earthquake _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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olmer2 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2009 Posts: 781 Location: chattanooga TN
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Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Two thumbs up Gary!! Looks great I've been fighting bump steer with my cut/turn frond as well. Nice work! I know what I'll be doing later this week! |
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Gary Massin-Ball Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004 Posts: 377
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Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks olmer! It was a year of running it through in my head before i got around to actually doin it.......Very glad I did.
Yes earthquake your idea would look like a super beetle steering. A little more work but should work as well or better.
Gary. |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5412 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Does the tie rod end go all they way through the tie rod? I didn't think the stubs were any longer than the rod is thick.
I can't tell exactly how the two are attached from the picture. Did you have to drill and tap the tie rod for the stub coming out of the rod end or does it actually make it all the way through so you can tread a nut on to hold it together? _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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77charger Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2005 Posts: 1492
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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I am using the china heavy duty rack and pinion(180 bucks) along with some custom made tie chromo tie rods i think it was about (100 bucks) for the rods and ends(international).
May sound pricey but i can tell you the hits i have taken in glamis would have ripped the stock tie rods apart along with a spindle.Couple witch eyes and last trip did a drop off about 6 ft down trail just dropped and i was going too fast to slow it down front end plowed good.Never felt better about having combo spindles here.Pretty much felt the belts get real tight when we hit. _________________ Click to view image
Bugpack 4 seater rail
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bdkw1 Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 798 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: |
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That will have a lot of bumpsteer on articulation. You would have been better off center mounting the box and running equal length tie rods. |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5412 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
That will have a lot of bumpsteer on articulation. You would have been better off center mounting the box and running equal length tie rods. |
I don't know man, those two passenger side tie rods are pretty long, longer than center mount/r&p tie rods.
Bump steer has a lot to do with the arc the tie rods traverse. The larger the radius, the less the change in distance at the spindle ends as they cycle.
Both mounting types will help with the bump steer, they just approach solving it in two different ways. The r&p solves it by making the geometry all nice and pretty. This guys modified stock set up improves it by way of the brute force method which maximizes the tie rod lengths to minimize the side to side distance change as it traverses an arc as the suspension cycles.
While this method might fall a little bit short of a PROPERLY set up r&p, it should still be miles ahead of the original set up that utilized a short drivers side tie rod. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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