Intercooling a 1.6TD

[BlackDogVan]

Anyone ever come across any info on the stock IC setup? from what I understand there was one on some models? Option maybe? It was a A/A with some ducting from what I seem to recall.

[wildenbeast]

I am also interested to see how Herman's intercooler turns out once his van is up and running;

from http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/2007/03/intercooler.html
The intercooler that I use comes from a Saab, it is an all aluminum cooler that I have welded a water jacket around. I also had to cut one of the elbows off and weld a straight connector on.
It fits behind the left taillight and it keeps the hoses to the turbo and intake manifold really short.
I will be using an air conditioning evaporator mounted next to the Vanagon radiator with a cooling fan, the fluid will be pumped around by an electric water pump through the engine oil cooler, transmission oil cooler and then through the intercooler.
This way I don't have to run hoses for 3 coolers to the front.
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- Bill, '93 Eurovan Syncro Weekender (2.5 manual ACU)

[BlackDogVan]

Some interesting data for this thread...

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24657.0

[tozovr]

Any Updates?
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...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too

'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com

[POS]

Hello All,

Here is the info that I can feed you, according to my experience.
I installed 1.6 td into my vanagon. Phase 1 was the turboed motor with n/a pump, phase 2 added the turbo pump with android boost, phase 3 added the Saab intercooler.

The intercooler was installed in the d column on the driver's side. I cut a bit of metal to get it behind the tail light. I built a dam to deflect air to the top
side of the intercooler blocking off the column so all air would flow thru the intercooler. I wish I could document the temperatures and have considered installing temperature gauges, but have not.

The set up I have made works well and intercooler makes a marked improvement in performance!

According to my undocumented seat of the pants calculations. The process took me from my 48 hp to about about (my guess) 78 hp.
Phase 2 added about 10 hp. Phase 3 added about 10 more hp.

I believe it is very important to seal the intercooler so that all airflow
is directed thru the intercooler and exits into the engine compartment.
The air flow is designed to provide adequate cooling for the air cooled motor, so I believe any changes such as directing air to wheel well or
trying to cool above the transmission a mistake.

So far I only have one 2,000 miles trip under my belt.

Here are some pictures. Hope this helps your journey.


Peace
David

[/img]

[?Waldo?]

Here is my current install. I posted this originally in this thread on the GTD forum:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21424.0

I have just gotten it going so I don't have any data points other than to say that the intercooler inlet temp gauge I am using reads down to 140° and the outlet temp gauge reads down to 100°. Neither gauge has moved up at all (yea, they work).

[outwesty]

I just got my TDI on the road. Not a 1.6 but a similar configuration. I finished this today. The intercooler behind the taillight is held up with a snowboard binding buckle and an old leather belt so it is easily removed...No cutting needed.

[Alaric.H]

That looks really good now you need some numbers.

[avdem]

Thanks for posting that POS, i`m just getting around to doing the same myself, will be running a fan underneath the cooler to give some more flow just in case.

Bit of a concern about crud being thrown up by the rear wheel hitting the fan but with som kind of protection i think it`s gonna work out fine.

[?Waldo?]

I have done some more testing today of my system and have to say I'm impressed. As I mentioned above, my inlet gauge only reads down to 140°F and my outlet gauge only reads down to 100°F. At 10 psi or below, the gauges never move (this is 60° ambient). If I push it, then with higher boost pressures (15 psi or so) I've seen the inlet temp at 160° and with the outlet at 110°. With sustained 20 psi, the inlet has gotten as high as 212° with the outlet at 125°. If I let off for 30 seconds or so they drop back down off the gauges. I have not yet seen intercooler outlet temps higher than 125°. Currently that gives a peak 65°F difference from ambient. I am sure that when the engine is fully broken in and I put it through more extended high boost situations I will see higher inlet and outlet temps with an even greater difference between the two. This is all without any fan on the intercooler. If the curves hold true and I ever see inlet temps at the 300°F mark that was quoted earlier, I would be shaving 150°, essentially doubling the effectiveness that was quoted before for air to air systems and still be less than 100° away from ambient. Definitely the numbers are not as good as the air to water numbers that folks have posted but overall I'm pleased especially considering the simpler and significantly less expensive install. I'd have a hard time calling that useless.

The oil temps are remarkably steady and haven't gotten above 210°F.

EGTs with the VNT can't seem to pass 1000°F pre-turbine wihtout having the fueling set where I'm blowing clouds of smoke which I'm not into.

Overall, even with the lowly 1.6TD, intercooler and VNT the van goes very well indeed. Performance easily well exceeds a 2.1 WBX.

I would reiterate what I have said other places, I think that anyone installing an air-to-air intercooler in the D-pillar area would be very ill-advised to cut out the bottom of the D-pillar. They will effectively nullify flow by venting the "high" pressure scoop into the "high" pressure rear of the wheel well. All of the anecdotes I've seen of people who have done so for either intercoolers or oil coolers have seen almost no effect from the coolers. Those individuals who have vented into the engine compartment have found more significant effect from the coolers. I can say firsthand that ducting to the vents cut on either side of the license plate door seems to be significantly more effective for flow and has the added benefit of avoiding any heat soaking into the intercooler from the exhaust.

Definitely fun to see the various installs and data points from folks who have installed the temp probes and gauges. I look forward to seeing more.

[outwesty]

[Christopher Schimke]

Great job Andrew AND outwesty!

Andrew, I have had that type of idea in my head for a long, long time, but in my version. I was going to relocate the license plate and open up the rear panel large enough for a good sized intercooler. The ducting would then be routed from both side penums to the intercooler. I know that it is kind of tight back there with an I4, but if the intercooler were placed between the taillights, it could stick out past the actual panel by a fair amount and still look integrated into the rear panel area. Maybe some small black panels between the taillights and the intercooler core.
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*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
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[?Waldo?]

Loogy, I think that's a really good idea, but I wouldn't want to lose the ability to check fluid levels and add without emptying the hatch area. Maybe a hinged intercooler?

[SyncroGhia]

[?Waldo?]

I did some more driving today and took it on some more significant grades (up 180 toward the Grand Canyon). It outperforms my 2.0L ABA inline-4 gasser passenger vanagon when it was in it's prime. I managed to get pre-intercooler temps up to 240°. Post intercooler didn't break 120° (colder ambient temps this morning in the upper 40s). EGTs got up there to 1250° if I stayed on the go pedal. Oil temps were up to 225° at most even with the extended grades. I'll be curious to see what they do in hotter temps.

[tozovr]

I love this.

My plan is to cherry pick my process from all of you.

I think I'm going Air to water and something similar to what Outwesty did.

Mr Libby's setup looks like the best engineered out there but my Van is my daily and an involved process like that would likely have me off teh road for more than a weekend as well as chopping and welding more than I should LOL.

The biggest hurdle for the planned setup is where to move my air filter and what will I rout it with. In the grand scheme of things, not a huge deal really. Currently the filter resides at the bottom of my driver's D pillar.

CX racing has some good deals on Intercooler/heat exchangers and pumps right now. so For under $200 I could get it here, in front of me and start tinkering while I work out the details. Fit the exchanger and hoses, re-locate my intake filter and then do the move to the intercooler in one swoop.

First step is monitoring the vitals. Need an EGT gauge and boost gauge.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too

'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com

[wildenbeast]

[?Waldo?]

EGTs are determined by fuel to air ratio and all I can say is it's not over or under-fueled. I'm comfortable with 1250° pre-turbine. I'd be o.k. with 1300-1350 pre-turbine as a peak and even consider that a decent safety margin for gauge error and probe lag. I'll leave the fueling where it is for now. If EGTs/fueling were reduced, oil temps would follow suit.

The grades were not extreme, but were extended. I think I gained 1500 feet over 20 miles, but most of it is gradual incline with a couple short downhills and a couple sections that are much steeper long inclines. Once I'm confident that the engine is well broken in I will hit the extended grades coming from Ash Fork to Flagstaff or from Verde Valley to Flagstaff either of which are a gain of 1,500 ft over a couple miles of 6% grade. I'll report back as I get more data points.

[jarad]

Andrew,
Any more data? I am finally mocking up my saab intercooler and will be venting into the engine compartment. I plan to reroute my aircleaner away from the heat, just haven't decided where yet. I also have a 1000 CFM fan pushing air from the inlet above the DS D pillar. I know a lot of people are saying that it is a waste, but it has to be better than no charge cooling at all. I don't have any probes, so I won't have any specific data. I would like to hear how yours is turning out!
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1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen

[?Waldo?]

I don't have any further data yet. When I built the injection pump I used some experimental pieces and haven't been entirely pleased. Because of that, I haven't been driving it much. I will get to pulling the pump before long and will report back.