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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: Size doesn't matter and where to buy a good one |
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HOW BIG:
Just like in your home water heater, you replace the anode when it is gone.
Putting two in would not hurt. One at each end. Engine end and radiator end. Both big aluminum areas.
NOTE: One should also consider a grounding system at each end too. You need to a have a return path.
WHERE TO BUY:
You can get the anodes at various places including marine supply stores or
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/anode.html
http://www.harboranodes.com/pencil_zincs.html (from above)
Not for Vanagon as there is no place to ground it, but works in other cars:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/RADIATOR_CORROSION_INHIBI...000879;0;0
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Size doesn't matter and where to buy a good one |
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| r39o wrote: |
HOW BIG:
Just like in your home water heater, you replace the anode when it is gone.
Putting two in would not hurt. One at each end. Engine end and radiator end. Both big aluminum areas.
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That doesn't really answer my question. If all the requirements are met for a galvanic reaction (dissimilar metals, ground path between them, electrolyte completing the other side of the circuit) what surface area of sacrificial anode is required to halt the reaction? Will just the smallest amount of anode halt the reaction with the other metal that you want to protect or does the surface area of the anode need to match the surface area of the material that is to be protected? Does the surface area needed depend on the difference in potentials? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Size doesn't matter and where to buy a good one |
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| r39o wrote: |
HOW BIG:
Just like in your home water heater, you replace the anode when it is gone.
Putting two in would not hurt. One at each end. Engine end and radiator end. Both big aluminum areas.
NOTE: One should also consider a grounding system at each end too. You need to a have a return path.
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My home water heater is glass line so very little metal is exposed in comparison to the size of the anode, plus the water heater is also electrically isolated from the rest of the plumbing in the house. As I stated before by installing an anode in the pipes and then grounding the pipes you may make the corrosion worse, maybe far worse. If you want to run SS pipes the best bet is to keep them electrically isolated, and if you want to run anodes, install them directly in the engine somehow. |
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Vanagonner
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2009
Posts: 506
Location: Broomfield Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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From what I have read, the size of the sacrificial annode can be small, since the current density is highest on a small annode. I think keeping things isolated is still good, but an annode would be nice to make sure everything is protected as it can be. I love the idea of a drain plug in the line, and if it were plated that should be good enough to protect the aluminum for a good while. Easy to replace too.
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Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
RMW I really appreciate your attitude in this thread. It is welcome to see a vendor of coolant pipes that when confronted with a potential issue begins looking to solutions that would be easy for the customer to maintain. If I am ever in the market for stainless coolant pipes I am sure I will give you my business.
What surface area of sacrificial anode(s) would be needed to compensate for the surface area of the coolant pipes/aluminum engine parts? |
Thanks for all the support guys. I am so far from a expert on this topic. I kinda don't even think it is a problem but I don't want that to stir a bunch more activity to justify that it is. Another product that I just located is Zinc coated tees for the rear heater core. Maybe this will help also?
So I think it is funny that Distilled Water has never come up in this whole topic. Isn't it the minerals in regular water that cause the problems anyway? We use distilled water when refilling and flushing Vanagons. Also isn't the system already exposed to stainless steel? I realize that the coolant tubes have much more surface area but what about the Thermostat, water Pump also has stainless in it.
I am open to modifying and changing products in any way. If we as a community really think this is a problem, lets get some test data. I drive 7 miles a day and rarely in my own vehicle. If someone out there drives 30k or 40k miles a year and is willing to do headgaskets to inspect and see if there is a problem down the road I will give them a half price set of coolant pipes. I will do it for multiple people if we think it is nessacary.
So we probably burned out a bunch of people with this post. Should we start a new one and call it the great Stainless Test of 2011? I don't think the results will be earth shattering but action is the only way to get results.Bring on the Guinea Pigs.
We should start a new post and stick to the facts and get a good test system going. I don't want to deal with the organiztion or results. I just want to provide the product. Someone that is a junkie here should step up and organize it.
Thanks again for all the support
Mike
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www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
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The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Mike,
You rock!
Thanks for keeping the seas calm around here.
It really gets stormy often.
I think that the Ts would work well even in a van that still has the plastic pipes.
Perhaps it would keep the head issues at bay for a few more miles.
Yes, distilled water was completely overlooked in this discussion thus far.
dylan |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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<<<Terry, show me one Vanagon that has not had corrosion problems, just one. Every Vanagon that I have ever heard of has had corrosion problems.>>>
Your 100% correct on this one-
And it doesn't make one iota of a difference if it was using mild steel, or plastic , non- galavanicly conductive tubing.
<<It doesn't matter whether the antifreeze was changed every year there was still a corrosion problem with the heads.>>
It really did, but you just didn't know what the service records were like on the particular vehicle. .
<<Yes changing the antifreeze every few years will reduce the problem and adding coolant conditioner is in my experience even better, but nothing stops it. >>
And--NOT ONLY ON A VANAGON.
On any engine--especially Aluminum!!!
<<The question is whether 304SS pipes make it worse.>>
NO.
<<You have either done no testing or won't admit to the results from the test.>>
I'll admit the results of a ten year case study on stainless coolant tubes & aluminum engines.
No adverse , corrosion, or electroletical, galvanic internal engine damage.
Done.
<<These aren't Fords, Detroits, or Cummins, they are VW Vanagons>>>
That's correct.
However, every one of theses engine aree internal combustion gas or dieselwater cooled engines, and DO REQUIRE PERIODIC COOLANT CHANGES TO PREVENT INTERNAL GALAVANIC ENGINE DAMAGE.
I wonder why John Deere, Petrbuilt, Freightliner, Mack, or any HD eguipment or truck parts counter has coolant litmus testing kits for sale.
Must be some sort of "As seen on TV" hype item---
Nothing to that at all---
<<that had a corrosion problem from day one that would lead to the failure of the waterbox gasket in about 80K miles no matter how often the antifreeze was change. >>
This is totally a bad JU-JU thought.
If you simply checked the DCA level in your Vans coolant system once a year, with a simple dip of a small pice of paper--or even checking the specific gravity of the coolant would give you a quick idea what shape it was in--would save a bunch of folks a bunch of problems with internal corrsion.
Nobody will do this--too hard.
<<Since you haven't shown any proof that your pipes won't make a bad problem worse I will have to assume that they will.>>
Assumptions sure don't make anything a fact---
And the SAE stainless tubing as tested causes no coolant system problems.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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<<<Well Terry,
You are wrong. We manufacture the pipes for Go Westy, Van Cafe and our own product right here in Ft Collins CO.>>
Glad to see you decided to immitate, not innovate Mike--
Everybody wants to get into the act.
Your 8-9 years late--but good for you.
I know for a fact that you don't supply ALL of the aforementioned pipes to the places you stated.
<< Probably could ship them anywhere for around $125 one piece.>>
Probability, and reality is two different things-
I'd suggest doing your homework on this subject a Bunch More--
Shoot me a shipping figure from you to 60056 via UPS--
Let me know what the price is,and when they'll be here.
Nice black rubber, uncut, run of the mill hose your using for the two piece pipe splice's---very innovative--Nice Touch.
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Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
<<<Well Terry,
You are wrong. We manufacture the pipes for Go Westy, Van Cafe and our own product right here in Ft Collins CO.>>
Glad to see you decided to immitate, not innovate Mike--
Everybody wants to get into the act.
Your 8-9 years late--but good for you.
I know for a fact that you don't supply ALL of the aforementioned pipes to the places you stated.
<< Probably could ship them anywhere for around $125 one piece.>>
Probability, and reality is two different things-
I'd suggest doing your homework on this subject a Bunch More--
Shoot me a shipping figure from you to 60056 via UPS--
Let me know what the price is,and when they'll be here.
Nice black rubber, uncut, run of the mill hose your using for the two piece pipe splice's---very innovative--Nice Touch. |
Terry, I won't play your games. You left a obvious hole in the market that I took advantage of. Why would the other vendors buy from Germany if you could have been making them all along? I think our products are very innovative and I don't think a immitation comment is fair. If you need the trophy for manufacturing the first set of Stainless Replacment pipes, you got my vote. I don't have the authority to give you the trophy or I would. I do this for fun not to prove I am right. Thanks for your opinion and thoughts. I think there is room in the marketplace for multiple vendors. I will not get in a public pissing match with you. I don't think it is good for either one of our reputations. This reply is not a solicitation for a reply from you. I am good, case closed.
I will get you a shipping quote on Monday.
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Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mike---
Good answer, good response.
I wan't looking for any confrontation--just working you over.
Be real careful on Carte' Blanche tossing shipping prices out there in the wide open yonder --somebodies gonna hold ya to it.
You can't ship the one piece pipes cheap--
Been there for a long time, and can't find anybody that will ship an oversized product inexpensive.
You'll be shaking your head on the price when you discover how much--
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T.K.
Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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volkswagatron
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Joined: January 26, 2008
Posts: 215
Location: French Creek ,WV
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I think someone needs to grow up a little bit...just let it go. |
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Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Mike---
Good answer, good response.
I wan't looking for any confrontation--just working you over.
Be real careful on Carte' Blanche tossing shipping prices out there in the wide open yonder --somebodies gonna hold ya to it.
You can't ship the one piece pipes cheap--
Been there for a long time, and can't find anybody that will ship an oversized product inexpensive.
You'll be shaking your head on the price when you discover how much-- |
Ok Terry, Got my shipping quote. $125 to your zip code for a commercial address. One Piece Stainless tubes 10 foot in length. Would you like a set or two? Ha-Ha just kidding but for real I can ship these things anywhere for around $125. Any Takers?
Thanks, Mike
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Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Mike,
via who in the transportation racket?
I know if you walked into UPS you'd be outa there with them tubes as fast as you walked in.
they have a size limitation, and the pipes are within the revolving door policy--
If you had to ship to only a commercial address---maybe your right.
The only way is Fed-Ex and with the oversized parcel--they'll only ship via express.
I need them delivered to my house---now how much?
About $158.90 is more like it.
Good Luck in the shippig department.
This is by far the biggest barrier & pain in the parts purveyor segment.
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
Got my new GW SS pipes yesterday!
Can't wait until Spring to get here and install them. |
Congradulations, That is a great product. One less thing to worry about. You should replace the Tee's in your heater lines to the rear heater core. Also plastic and considered junk depending on who you ask. We are working on having a production product available.
Good Luck, Mike
_________________
Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Mike,
via who in the transportation racket?
I know if you walked into UPS you'd be outa there with them tubes as fast as you walked in.
they have a size limitation, and the pipes are within the revolving door policy--
If you had to ship to only a commercial address---maybe your right.
The only way is Fed-Ex and with the oversized parcel--they'll only ship via express.
I need them delivered to my house---now how much?
About $158.90 is more like it.
Good Luck in the shippig department.
This is by far the biggest barrier & pain in the parts purveyor segment. |
Come on Terry, Isn't a guy allowed to have a few secrets? I ship a lot of truck freight. It is amazing as soon as someone can save $40 they find a commercial address. Lets face it everyone in the Vanagon community has there local shop they have done business with for years. There is your commercial address. Shipping is easy and profitable for me. I am sorry you struggle with it. You should find yourself a good commercial shipping broker. I use Fed EX when appropriate. I rarely use UPS and I NEVER walk in their door.
_________________
Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:45 am Post subject: |
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The only "Truck Freight " I ever use is Forward Air, and they are notorious for damaging freight.
The price is more than right, but the damages created by saving a buck really voids the shipment savings.
The rest of them around here are all union shops/ carrier's and cost 3 times as much as the common carrier's, such as UPS & Fed-Ex.
Fed-Ex is the most resonable,and accessable in this area.
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: |
| Timwhy wrote: |
Got my new GW SS pipes yesterday!
Can't wait until Spring to get here and install them. |
Congradulations, That is a great product. One less thing to worry about. You should replace the Tee's in your heater lines to the rear heater core. Also plastic and considered junk depending on who you ask. We are working on having a production product available.
Good Luck, Mike |
Why should these T's be replaced? Other than being old, brittle?
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Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
| Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: |
| Timwhy wrote: |
Got my new GW SS pipes yesterday!
Can't wait until Spring to get here and install them. |
Congradulations, That is a great product. One less thing to worry about. You should replace the Tee's in your heater lines to the rear heater core. Also plastic and considered junk depending on who you ask. We are working on having a production product available.
Good Luck, Mike |
Why should these T's be replaced? Other than being old, brittle? |
That is really the only reason. The replacements are identical to the original. It is just a good time to replace them because the system is empty. I also would replace the stainless coolant tower. They are also plastic. Here is a link to the coolant tower.
http://www.rockymountainwesty.com/VanagonWaterboxerParts.htm
Good luck, Mike
_________________
Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: |
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<<my 85 had new ss pipes when i got it.they where replaced about 3-4 yrs ago.i havnt had any problems with the and the outside is still shinny new.dont know where he got them though.>>
Is your 85 GL white, and you bought it from Mike Popovich in Johnstown PA?
I know where the pipes came from.
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