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pnocean
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: Camshaft Pitting |
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Was wondering if anyone had an opinion on how pitting on the cam is too much. Bought this motor used and hoped to replace my the motor in my '79 Cal Bus. The motor in the pictures is a Vanagon 2.0 with 81,000 miles on it. What about replacing pistons, cylinders, oil pump and leaving cam as is? Motor appears to be solid , no slop. I would use the heads from the 2.0 in my Bay and other parts that fit.
Pics here: http://picasaweb.google.com/pnoceanwesty/AardvarkAtMikeWhartonS?authkey=Gv1sRgCOaP5-vmkLPuEg#
Thanks for any advice! |
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GusC2it
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 1376
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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vanagon engine with 81K miles is not likely to be worth many more miles. vanagon engines are the hardest working of any type 4. they are all hydraulic and eat cams, the heads are awful for losing seats and developing cracks.
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SL
Last edited by germansupplyscott on Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mnskmobi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2005
Posts: 536
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| GusC2it wrote: |
always replace the stock cam and lifters  |
And preferably not with a stock cam!  |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mnskmobi wrote: |
| GusC2it wrote: |
| always replace the stock cam and lifters |
And preferably not with a stock cam! |
Performance-wise or longevity-wise?
Since I was never in a rush, I sought after the oem camshafts and lifters so I could enjoy 200,000 miles of blessed reliability and matched wear.
When I got my FEBI lifters and aftermarket camshaft (with new fresher profiles!) I couldn't get 80,000 lousy thousand miles before they looked like a moonscape.
Colin
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www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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pnocean
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: |
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vanagon engine with 81K miles is not likely to be worth many more miles
I only average about 2000 miles per year on camping trips. No hot rodding, just 62 mph - point A to point B driving to get around the campfire.
Based on the look of the cam, anyone think I could get a couple years out this motor while doing a full rebuild on the old one or buy a good rebuilt?
The motor has decent compression - between 100 to 125 all the way around. It ran fine when I bought it.
Thanks for your thoughts. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| mnskmobi wrote: |
| GusC2it wrote: |
| always replace the stock cam and lifters |
And preferably not with a stock cam! |
Performance-wise or longevity-wise?
Since I was never in a rush, I sought after the oem camshafts and lifters so I could enjoy 200,000 miles of blessed reliability and matched wear.
When I got my FEBI lifters and aftermarket camshaft (with new fresher profiles!) I couldn't get 80,000 lousy thousand miles before they looked like a moonscape.
Colin |
If it has new and/or fresher cam profiles...its NOT an OEM cam. It was made a good deal later than during the original production phase of the vehciles. Stock type 4 cams already had some issues from the factory. They were not ideal. Some could last 200k miles with great care and perfect break in and tuning. Most others had bad wear patterns and were on the second set of lifters by 100k miles. A small portion ...crpaped out early...30-50k. I have not heard of any massive failures through...flat cam syndrome.
With all of the issues that have been clarified with type 4 cams over the past 5 years... the need for proper lifter to lobe geometry, proper lifter surface hardness, proper lobe hardness and smoothness for oiling purposes, proper face geometry to promote lifter spin, proper gudie dimesnions, spring pressures, pushrod geometry......and now...the issues of the fact that 90% of all oils on the market will destroy a flat tappet cam like ours during break-in because the additive packages necessary have been discontinued sstarting in 2007.......
.......and it comes down to the fact that if you find a set of cam and lifters that have been made by one of the several OEM manufacturers....and it has been made more recently than the late 70's....you will have no idea whether it was made under the QC supervision of and to the specs of...VW. It can and probably will have all of the above problems just like many other cams out there.
There are a handful of decent cam manufacturers out there that make cams for type 4's. Buy their cam, gear, lifters and lube.
And here is the issue right here in your post: Why would you pair a set of FEBI lifters with an aftermarket cam?
NEVER use lifters that are not paired to a cam by manufacturing process. If anyone trys to sell you a type 4 cam and does not sell matched...proven...lifters with it.....its about 90% likely that low miles and pitting will happen....if not death on break-in that many people have seen.
Then again....had the same thing happen in atlanta to a brand new OEM cam and lifters bought through automobile atlanta....at great expense to finish out a 914 1.7L . Everything was bone stock and perfectly done. The owner paid $$$ for a stock OEM in the box NEW cam and lifters. After 3500 miles....the lifters looked like cheese...metal everywhere.
This was early 90's. Even though the cam was all OEM and was a Porsche VW part....there is no way of knowing when it was made.
I'll be happy to send you pictures of my web 73 with matched lifters...and close to 90k miles on it. Smooth as the day it was born. Cam and lifters are spotless. It could easily run another 100k. I have not had any problems at all with high miles in "certain" aftermarket cams. But ALL of them have lifters matched and warranted to the cam.
At this point...I would only buy from Jake Raby, Aircooled.net or Webcam.
Ray |
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