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Vanagon fuel rail fix
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Vanagon fuel rail fix Reply with quote

to stop the worry of vanagon plastic fuel rails leaking (they can fail at the crimped joint, new fuels can attack the seal) I was able to use the steel rails form my 914 (type IV air cooled) one more plastic part eliminated in the fuel system. consider this option when rebuilding yoru fuel system, the elimination of more plastic parts will assure longer life of your van!
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candyman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

any pics?
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was talk a while back about this option from your local harbor freight. just change out to Barb fittings sized right.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96398
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is designed for air, not sure I'd trust it.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh, remove the air couplings and install brass barb fittings.. and then it's overrated for fuel..

though on my baja I have had a aircoupling for my bulkhead fuel line fitting for 8+ years. YMMV and kids, don't try that at home.
had to replace it once in the 8yrs, picked up a slight damp/dribble on the high pressure line (when I was running CIS fuel injection)
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morymob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't trust the plastic ones either. Was about 70mi away and stopped for a minute, smelled gas and drivers side rail was cracked at base of barb and dripping onto ex pipe. Lucky a friend was close and brought the metal one from earlier one to replace. No old plastic from now on.
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RGS Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't love the idea of using the 914 rails because they have such a small volume, good to know that they fit though. There area couple of aftermarket companies selling big fuel rails for the 914 that would work great on the vans.

Paul
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seanjenn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGS Paul wrote:
I don't love the idea of using the 914 rails because they have such a small volume, good to know that they fit though. There area couple of aftermarket companies selling big fuel rails for the 914 that would work great on the vans.

Paul

Any Idea which companies make those large volume 914 versions?

That 4-way air coupler idea is great. But the Harbor Freight couplers are shite. Ask me how I know. The side that has all the air chucks on it is very thin, as in the threaded area. There are only 2 maybe 3 continuous threads where those chucks screw in. Quality of threads is also not so great. They use quite a bit of glue(sealant) to seal up the "threads". Kind of a pain to get all that shit out of the inside. I made one, it worked great....for about 5mi then started leaking. Good thing I was in the hardware store parking lot, ran inside and grabbed a couple 5/16 tees and a couple more clamps. Got me home fine.
I used brass barb fittings and brass plugs as well as the correct joint compound to seal the threads. There are several different types of this compound, make sure you get the stuff that is safe for use with gasoline. Also you'll need to give it overnight to set up properly. I attribute the leaking to crappy threads in the 4-way, poor quality and not enough of em. Central Pneumatic was the brand. Look in the phone book for a pneumatic tools/equipment supplier, I'm sure the quality will be much better and you will probably have some more choices.
I've been thinking of having a machinist buddy of mine make me some, one piece billet style.
You could also build your own using some FI rail stock, cut your own threads in em and there you go. I can't believe none of the vendors that make their own upgrades have caught onto the fact that this is something they could sell easily and probably by the pallet full! Cool
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGS Paul wrote:
I don't love the idea of using the 914 rails because they have such a small volume, good to know that they fit though. There area couple of aftermarket companies selling big fuel rails for the 914 that would work great on the vans.

Paul


have you havd any flow probelms with the 914 rail flow volume? (I have not started my van yet) the pipe diameters are the same as that of the rubber hoses, so I dont see it as a restriction. it does flow enough for a 2.0 liter 914 car, so i figure my 2.2 liter vanagon (big bore kit) should require about the same size.

let me know if you think I will run into probelms with this set up.
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seanjenn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if this helps any but when I made my parking lot fix with those 5/16 T's, the van ran fine all the way home. Two of the injectors were being supplied with the factory plastic rail and the other two injectors had the make-shift T set up(much smaller dia.). It was about 6 miles to the house from where I was. There was no change in engine performance under power or at idle. Makes you wonder why they didn't just put the steel rails on in the first place. They probably had boxes of em left over from the Baywindows. I think that the FI Baywindows used the same fuel rail set-up as the 914?
Does anybody have some definative info on the volume requirements of the vanagon fuel rails?
I'd bet it doesn't have to be the same size as what's on there from the factory.
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morymob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGS Paul wrote:
I don't love the idea of using the 914 rails because they have such a small volume, good to know that they fit though. There area couple of aftermarket companies selling big fuel rails for the 914 that would work great on the vans.

Paul
If your van uses all the gas those rails will flow you must get 1/20th mpg or less. as for why they stopped using steel=cost to fab up line/cheap vac formed piece of plastic.
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morymob wrote:
RGS Paul wrote:
I don't love the idea of using the 914 rails because they have such a small volume, good to know that they fit though. There area couple of aftermarket companies selling big fuel rails for the 914 that would work great on the vans.

Paul
If your van uses all the gas those rails will flow you must get 1/20th mpg or less. as for why they stopped using steel=cost to fab up line/cheap vac formed piece of plastic.


sorry I dont get what your saying here, (I am a little slow this morning) are you saying my milage will drop by 1/20 of a mpg with use of these (914) rails?

seems to me they are not much of a restriction compared to the plastic rails, same sized ports, only difference i see is the volume of the rail, same sized inlet and outlet.
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morymob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dave menche wrote:
morymob wrote:
RGS Paul wrote:
I don't love the idea of using the 914 rails because they have such a small volume, good to know that they fit though. There area couple of aftermarket companies selling big fuel rails for the 914 that would work great on the vans.

Paul
If your van uses all the gas those rails will flow you must get 1/20th mpg or less. as for why they stopped using steel=cost to fab up line/cheap vac formed piece of plastic.


sorry I dont get what your saying here, (I am a little slow this morning) are you saying my milage will drop by 1/20 of a mpg with use of these (914) rails?

seems to me they are not much of a restriction compared to the plastic rails, same sized ports, only difference i see is the volume of the rail, same sized inlet and outlet.
No drop in mi , just a reply to above statement about the lines being so small they can't handle the gas flow needed. Horse fertilizer, they have more volume than u will need running 2 engines.
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seanjenn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How bout this, somebody mail me some 914 rails and I'll run em. I will provide a full right up at the end of testing, however long that may take! Wink
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RGS Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morymob wrote:
If your van uses all the gas those rails will flow you must get 1/20th mpg or less.


Then why do most modern cars, especially performance cars, have giant fuel rails? It is to provide a pressure reservoir for when you bury the throttle. The pressure reservoir acts to help cover the transient fuel demand situations before the fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump can catch up. Might not be a big issue on a totally stock van but I'd still prefer to have a little extra volume out there then the stock 914 rails provide.

Sean, here is one company, I haven't dealt with then so can't vouch. There are a few others out there.
http://www.9xauto.com/914frail.htm

Dave, the 914 rails should be fine for the wasserboxer, I just think that there are better options out there. It might be a tiny performance difference but it might be worth it. Dunno…

Paul
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powderedwaters
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just chiming in... have a look at the new rails...but scroll down to the bottom. Aluminum fuel lines? Any thoughts here?

http://www.9xauto.com/914frail.htm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the product of being snowed in all weekend.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I didn't cut open a plastic fuel rail to get exact dimensions, but I made some estimations based on external measurements to get the volume approximately equivalent to stock. Took about 6 hours to make this one. Now I have a pressure gauge permanently attached making the FI system much easier to troubleshoot. Tested under 60psi with no leaks. That's one piece I definitely do not want leaking.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daaaaang that's nice!
Looks sharp.
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simd0ggie
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keane, What did you seal the square end plate with? I don't see any gap..
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks seanjenn

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Sorry, crappy cell phone pic. Its all I have right now.

simd0ggie, you can see an o-ring groove in the above pic. I just used a standard -019 o-ring. Id be happy to send drawings to anybody who would like them. Just shoot me a PM.
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