Pertronix Billet Distributor Upgrade Feasible?

[RailBoy]

Hello, I am looking to upgrade my 2110's ignition system from a 009/Pertronix Module/Bosch Silicon Plug Wires/Original Blue Coil to using the Pertronix Billet Distributor and a Flame Thrower Coil, of course the Pertronix Module comes within the Billet Distributor. So, is this viable?

The reason for this is just to get a hotter spark, or that is the thought. The Engine is in a Street Driven Sand Rail and is freshly built and now I am tuning to carb, I run a Single 44 Weber mounted to a Redline Center Intake. Something else that matters I am running an Engle 120 Cam with 041 Heads/TrilMill Header..

Well, I am intrigued by the Pertronix Big Rotor Cap that limits arching. I simply want to run a bigger spark plug gap to get as much fuel to burn as possible.. I have to run a single Carb do to Chassis intrusions..

Anyway, I am just wondering to maximize my engine, is financing a new Pertronix Billet FlameThrower kit practical over a 009/Pertronix Module/Blue Coil worth wild? I have compared prices with MSD and Mallory....

From what I have gathered here in thesamba's forums, there is not a super lot of info on the Pertronix Flame Thrower and Billet Distributor Kit when I studied the info in the past, this is feedback wise.. So, I am wondering if anymore people have experimented with this set up and what results they have seen as of lately?

Simply a fan of Pertronix Billet Distributor's big cap for less arching and using a higher output Coil to increase Spark Plug Gap.

Something else that may contribute to my modest goal both financially and practicality is that my Rail is a Street Rail with a detuned engine set-up thus the use of one carb, but just like to make the most of it. So if anyone has info they can contribute on this topic it would be greatly appreciated..... RB

[miniman82]

What compression? If you're not over 8.5:1, you have no use for a 'better' ignition.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747

[RailBoy]

Yea that is something I forgot to mention, I think I am in the relm of 8.333 compression ratio. That is the numbers I saw that were calculated.. I do know compression restrictions play a big role is why to run a hotter set-up, but just not knowledgeable on how to go about or what to think of the topic to increase my spark plug gap.. I am just in the midst of tuning the hell out of my new engine is why this is on my mind...

I am currently at .030 gap and just wonder what is practical pertaining to this, and throwing up the idea of should I upgrade, oh and is that a decent gap to be running? .... Pros/Cons.....

Sorry about forgetting the compression ratio there.. But it is a street driven rail that runs off pump gas....

One other thing, I have seen and only been able to find Spark Plugs With Resistors, have not found non-resister plugs lately so wonder how this plays into the equation, the whole spark plug gap topic..... RB

[ots03]

I think the main advantage is distributor quality (the billet distributor is far better quality than most old or chinese/brazilian 009) also you can adjust the advanqe curve and put a multispark ignition box..

If you dont want to change the wires you can buy a good condition 010/019 and put some electronic device on it..
Another good option could be the ac.net mallory distributors.

[miniman82]

Not enough compression to require a hot ignition, I know people that have turbos with more.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747

[RailBoy]

Ok, I can see that from all the info I have read. Just wanted to verify it was not a worth wild pursuit to justify the upgrade do to my engine set-up.. Thanks for your input. RB

[miniman82]

If you had 7/10ths more compression I could see it worthwhile, but not as ti sits right now.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747

[RailBoy]

After seeing what I run, the Bosch Blue Coil, Bosch Silicon Plug Wires, Pertronix Module, and a 009 Distributor. What would you advise me to do? Or is there an upgrade I should look into, as in Plug Wires, ect...???

What I ran into with my last spark plug purchase, I am unable to get non-resister style plugs locally. Not sure if this comes into play on a big level, but I am looking to max out my plug gap just to get a good clean spark, thus firing....

How should I look at my set-up? Good, Fair, Average, Excellent for the times?
I did base this set-up originally on info I knew of years ago and just wonder how it compares to new ideas and practices now days... Basically I just plopped my original ignition onto my new motor is all I did... RB

[Glenn]

Forget the the oo9 and get a Bosch 010. The Pertronix 1844 drops right in and match that to a Bosch (Brazilian) Blue coil and Bosch 7mm silicone wires and it will run great.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[RailBoy]

How does the Bosch 010 compare to the 009? It is a street car and needs to be streetable.. Thing is I have had this set-up for 20 years and am fairly use to it.. But I do and the Rail as well has room to grow as long as it is a sensible upgrade, swap for better street use..RB

[Glenn]

I run one on my 2180 that's in a street car.

It's got a more aggressive advance and more stable than the oo9.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[vwracerdave]

Leave what you got alone and run it. Gap the plugs at .028" If your engine isn't running clean it is because your carbs are not jetted correctly.
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2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

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[RailBoy]

Thanks for ya'lls input, just wanted to make sure my ignition set-up is up
to par to do the job effectively. I can see what Glenn is getting at with
swapping to a 010 pertaining to the timing advancement curve. Guess I may just keep an eye out for a 010 distributor in the future and if I find one I will cross that bridge when it comes.. Thanks again....RB

[Alan_U]

Why dontcha contact Glenn. He probably has a good handful fully rebuilt ready to go. While your at it get the cap/rotor for tuneup parts.

As far as the pertronix is concerned I'd see if there is a pertronix II version available. That is a much more intelligent spark manager. The "II" version will allow enough dwell time for sufficient spark.

To be honest your current setup is fine except the advance curve is kinda sluggish.

I have the mallory unilite and its a phenominal distributor with rock solid timing with no ignition bounce.

Dont be concerned with all this bull cra! sales pitch of "increase spark" the KV required to fire atomized fuel in a "street car" is not very high. A blue coil with a standard pertronix will have enough KV potential even at 7000+ rpms. The pertronix II is just better at giving sufficient dwell time to "recharge" the spark. Can you feel a difference? I doubt it.
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11.92sec pump gas true daily driver. Who says it cant be done.

No more time for VW's.......

[RailBoy]

Hello, thanks for the in site into the distributor. That is what I have gathered about the distributors that I have been reading up on, 009/010/019/050, ect.... It seams that the 009 is near the top when it comes to the advance curve, but not as "on" as the 010.

I have seen Glen's site, very impressive.. I should email him to hear about what I should do just to have a collective ear lets say on the topic. Thing is I have gathered lots of input here in the forums, but at the same time some of it seams to be lacking in validity is all.. Seen lots from Glen in the forums on the topic though, just no direct comparisons of the distributors, ie-defining differences...

I will keep an eye out for the Pertronixs you mentioned, could be down the road.. Thanks to you and Glen for helping setting me straight, and also the monkey guy I see all the time, he seams right on or close enough to always consider he is on target... Sorry if it sounds like I am judging, just want valid, verifiable expertise on info is all. Kinda hard to get on here at times or to find... Thing is all my buds are kinda going away in a bad way, lost a nice informative guy a few years back who knew his stuff. Also, not many people in my area up to par on VW stuff what so ever, or lets say not anymore...

Thanks for helping set me straight, been a while since I talk shop over VW's, built a Rail back in '88 and never really changed until now, new 2110 engine and Hybrid Drag Tranny and a few other perks in the past few years though....

Just for laughs check this out, my Hurst Shifter: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/642923.jpg

Thanks again... RB

[donmurray]

I've noticed that some well known engine builders are using the 009. Why would they sacrifice some performance if the 010 is better? Is it because they both produce the same HP in a full throttle dyno pull, but the 010 has better performance at low rpm? Still, it looks like these builders would see the difference on the run up power curve, and opt for the better distributor.
Maybe the difference is not worth fussing over?
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine

[RailBoy]

I think what the key is and when I think I can touch base with Glenn on it is the Advancement Curve like you are hitting on.. I am not 100% sure, but it seams from what I have read and heard is that the 010 comes on more in the low range/low RPM's vs. the 009. So, you have more bottom end torque. But, this has yet to be verified for validity for I have never talked to anyone specifically on this matter. Also, like you spoke of, the heavy hitters typically build a higher revving engine, where as I run single heavy duty valve springs and rely on Low End Torque to do the job on the street, plus more manageable and also hopefully will be a high milage motor do to less cam/lifter forces... Thus back to using a 010 vs. the 009n like you said for rev differences...... Have to yet to verify this info though with someone who knows specifically.... RB

[Glenn]

[RailBoy]

Thanks for your input and graph Glenn, I know you are busy....RB

[donmurray]

Thanks Glenn,

Now if some engine builder would present hp & torque curves for 2 or 3 different engines. Each engine doing a pull with each distributor. Has anyone done some dyno comparisons? It's not likely that all engines would respond the same to different distributor advance curves.
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine