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Bosch SR0408X/409X vs HiTorqueIMI-101 gear reduction starter
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dkonzy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Starter Reply with quote

I finally found a core to use to upgrade my starter to the TDI SR0408X with the Westy Ventures adaptor.


Wondering if there is a reliable source. What I DONT want is to go through all this trouble to end up with a poorly reman unit... Is there any way to tell what is Bosch reman vs any others?

Also, looks like the 409 has .2kw more power. Is that the case?


Thanks!

tclark wrote:
wcdennis wrote:
Here are some photos of the eBay WPS SR0408X starter and WestyVentures adapter:

Just FYI that is not a SR0408X
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partsearch.aspx?part=SR0408X&Submit=Go
its a SR0409X 2Kw
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partnum.aspx?part=2-1974-BO
the SR0408X is this one 1.8Kw
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partnum.aspx?part=2-1890-BO
and FYI again buffbuh bought the 2-1890-BO
might not make a diff in build quality but he did not buy the exact same unit

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wbx
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Bosch SR0408X/409X vs HiTorqueIMI-101 gear reduction sta Reply with quote

boulderdrop wrote:

I put the HiTorque GVW-IMI-104 in my 84-westy a few years ago when GoWesty still sold them. I've heard that previous models of the HT worked well, but this one did not. It died in about 3 years. When looking for a replacement...maybe it's something simple!


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=384710

Here is my rebuild that i did for the IMI-104 in my '84. It would be cool if you cracked it open and saw if it were a similar problem... My starter has been working 100% since the rebuild.
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boulderdrop
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Bosch SR0408X/409X vs HiTorqueIMI-101 gear reduction sta Reply with quote

tclark wrote:
So looks like my Bosch starter solenoid is on the way out after only 5 years
So when i bought this a back then I found out that http://www.hitorque.com
built a gear reduction starter for amout us$185
and I also see a few co doing rebuild imi-101
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320466104212

any feeds back from any one who bought either of these starter motors ?

particularly the rebuild units ??


I put the HiTorque GVW-IMI-104 in my 84-westy a few years ago when GoWesty still sold them. I've heard that previous models of the HT worked well, but this one did not. It died in about 3 years. When looking for a replacement, I discovered some stuff on GW website and here on the lousy build quality. Last year, I replaced it with a standard OEM Bosch unit and haven't had any troubles. I've still got the HT in my shop and would like to rebuild it to understand the mechanics better of a starter, there's several rebuild threads here (including this one); maybe it's something simple!
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11CAB
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always use a Subaru reduction starter with this kit

www.crankykits.com.au
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have got way more macgyver in you that I do, nice temp fix.
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a follow-up on the WPS starter that I installed in my Subaru conversion.
Initially I was very impressed and totally happy with the performance. It spun the engine so fast that starting was instantaneous and no more sluggish starts when the engine was hot. BUT--last week we took a trip to the beach and after a couple of days camping, we decided to drive to town to have lunch. When I turned the key nothing happened. My first thought was; did I run the battery down? No wait something is running. I realize the starter is whirring away but not engaged with the flywheel. As quickly as possible, I get the battery disconnected. After it cooled down, I pulled the starter and cracked it open. This is what I found:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The plastic collar that connects the lever to the solenoid plunger was melted.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

What caused this, I'm not sure, but now we were stranded. Fortunately, I was able to make a temporary fix with a zip tie:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This actually got us home. I bought a rebuilt Bosch starter from NAPA. It was expensive, but hopefully more reliable.
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tclark
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcdennis wrote:
Here are some photos of the eBay WPS SR0408X starter and WestyVentures adapter:

Just FYI that is not a SR0408X
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partsearch.aspx?part=SR0408X&Submit=Go
its a SR0409X 2Kw
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partnum.aspx?part=2-1974-BO
the SR0408X is this one 1.8Kw
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partnum.aspx?part=2-1890-BO
and FYI again buffbuh bought the 2-1890-BO
might not make a diff in build quality but he did not buy the exact same unit
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:
tclark wrote:
BlackDogVan wrote:

Do you need some glow on a warm start?? Mine did until the VW tdi starter setup, definitely the way to go IMHO. Gear red just didn't have the poop...

BD - are you saying this about the ebay made in china SR0408X
or about the crap bosch reman starters for the the wbx'ers ?


I meant my OEM TDI Bosch starter on my AAZ makes me feel the same as when I'd climb the rope in gym class...

The gear reduction unit didn't have the poop to spin the engine over fast enough to start a warm engine without a wee bit of glow plug. Now all go, no glow.


What I meant was the relationship between the high power slow turn and adapter verses the Porsche starter. This automatic centric, though.

I don't know if I want a TDI starter or a 911 starter. Both will basically be free excepting if I get one that needs the adapter. But, my total cost will be very low. I just do not want to have to fix it again, if possible.
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some photos of the eBay WPS SR0408X starter and WestyVentures adapter:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here it is with the adapter plate:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the adapter mounted on the starter:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the testing video:

Link


All I can say now, is that it works. I haven't decided if I will try to take it apart before I install it and see what the internals look like.
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Gauche1968
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue of the gear reduction starters is intriguing me, because I bought one of the Hi Torque starters in Spring 2007, just before GoWesty stopped carrying them due to declining quality standards from the manufacturer. I haven't had a problem with it since, so I am wondering if I got lucky and got one of the good ones or if I am sitting on a time bomb? Question
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tclark
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
Dang, it seems there almost is NO perfect starter!

r39o the above post is only in reference to the wps clones of the
SR0408X/SR0409X, you can get brand new life time warranty
for 350-400 Bosch units + the $70 adapter
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tclark wrote:
BlackDogVan wrote:

Do you need some glow on a warm start?? Mine did until the VW tdi starter setup, definitely the way to go IMHO. Gear red just didn't have the poop...

BD - are you saying this about the ebay made in china SR0408X
or about the crap bosch reman starters for the the wbx'ers ?


I meant my OEM TDI Bosch starter on my AAZ makes me feel the same as when I'd climb the rope in gym class...

The gear reduction unit didn't have the poop to spin the engine over fast enough to start a warm engine without a wee bit of glow plug. Now all go, no glow.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang, it seems there almost is NO perfect starter!

So what do I use?

TDI?

or

Porsche?

Anybody have some part numbers so I can find a Porsche one to use with my automatic and Suby?????

At least that bolts in and we know several local Porsche shops as trade partners.
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tclark
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcdennis wrote:
I just bought one of those eBay starters and the Westy Ventures adapter I will report back after I install it.

Any chance you might want to take the starter case apart b4 you install
and confirm the 'design flaw' that buffbuh claims in this thread
(Also he did not get the 2KW model he claims to of got 2-1890-BO 1.8KW)?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4395099#4395099

and take pics so the collective sambanistas sp ? can weight in in this on this China junk theory ?
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Last edited by tclark on Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tristar Eric
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just installed my TDI starter on my Syncro Doka. I have the trans out, so it's way easier. Here's the thing, don't expect this thing to be changed easily when it's in. The diff lock bracket is notched to allow the starter to sit right on it. Then the diff lock switch is so close that it was not easily tightened.
I'm crossing my fingers that I won't be back in there for a while, but it might just be easier to drop the trans in the future to access the starter.

TDI Power coming soon!
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kenwilfy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Hi Torque starter Reply with quote

Because they are gear reduction starters they actually turn the engine over exactly half as fast as the stock starters (I forget how I figured this out). They sacrifice spinning speed for torque. I had a customer come in with one of these he bought from a vendor before he came to me. I installed it and then he came back about a year later. Wow this thing turned into a rusted pile of poop in that one year. The warranty was over and so was the starter. I put a Bosch rebuilt unit back on and it is still going strong. What do I put on my Vanagons? Bosch rebuilt starters. They are the best. They are expensive but they usually go the distance versus any other rebuilt starter out there. I tried a few Advance Auto starters when I was first starting out. Can you say "Spray Paint" rebuild? They didn't even a full week out of them before they were acting worse than the old one I took off. Yes they have a lifetime warranty but who wants to spend their lifetime changing them? Not me.
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought one of those eBay starters and the Westy Ventures adapter for my 2.2L Subaru powered '84. I have the hot start problem, but never to the point that the engine won't start--although sometimes it just barely makes it. This can be exciting when you accidentally stall it at a crowded intersection. I will report back after I install it.
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tclark
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to close this out yes this ebay starter motor
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300277150519

is a WPS(WAIglobal and Transpo Electronics) Unit
they are sourced from http://www.wai-wetherill.com/
looks like they also have an online partplace http://www.wpsparts.com/
and its part 2-1974-BO aka the SR0409X
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partnum.aspx?part=2-1974-BO

interesting is that 2-1890-BO spec is 1.8KW aka the SR0408X
http://search.waiglobal.com/partsearch/partnum.aspx?part=2-1890-BO
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:

Do you need some glow on a warm start?? Mine did until the VW tdi starter setup, definitely the way to go IMHO. Gear red just didn't have the poop...

BD - are you saying this about the ebay made in china SR0408X
or about the crap bosch reman starters for the the wbx'ers ?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allsierra123 wrote:
I have the ebay gear reduction on my TD and have yet to have any trouble with it. Works very nicely


Do you need some glow on a warm start?? Mine did until the WV tdi starter setup, definitely the way to go IMHO. Gear red justy didn't have the poop...
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