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photoghog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:33 am    Post subject: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

Hi all,
77 westy.
I've routinely had issues with my gas gauge where it would read accurately then go to empty. When this would happen, I would reach around the back of the cluster and wiggle the wires and then it would read correctly again (I know, I know...not very scientific). The last time I did this, the gas gauge went WAY past Full and get stuck there. It's been that way every since. Turn on the ignition, gauge reads way past full (the needle actually disappears). The sender appeared to be working appropriately because I was getting accurate readings. I read several threads where folks said the gauge itself can be faulty and then I've seen mention of a vibrator (that's what she said). Based on the symptoms of what I described, would you start with a replacement gas guage?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

Start with a mirror or camera and see if all your wiggling broke the insulator around where the brown wire (G terminal) enters the back of the cluster.
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cmonSTART
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

There is an insulating board on the back that the nuts and wire terminals press up against when you tighten them - I think it's paper or something and likely it has worn through.

I replaced mine recently with a piece of plastic from a milk jug - 1000% better.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

I had a similar issue and it was a bad crimp from the factory.
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photoghog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

Interesting. You don't happen to have a pic of the insulating board, do you?

cmonSTART wrote:
There is an insulating board on the back that the nuts and wire terminals press up against when you tighten them - I think it's paper or something and likely it has worn through.

I replaced mine recently with a piece of plastic from a milk jug - 1000% better.

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cmonSTART
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

covered here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638102
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photoghog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

Got it. Thanks for sharing.


cmonSTART wrote:
covered here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638102

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photoghog
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

cmonSTART wrote:
covered here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638102


I replaced the insulator and am still have the same issue. With the key on, the gas gauge goes all the way past full. I know I don't have a full tank.

Anyone else experienced this and have other suggestions?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

If it uses a Zener diode type stabiliser (voltage regulator) for the fuel gauge (more modern): if you accidentally short 12 volts to the output side of the stabiliser, it will blow the internal diode, which will then go open circuit, leaving the output stuck at 12 volts.
Also if the voltage regulator loses its earth, coming loose, it will produce 12 volts.
Check the voltage on the output of the regulator is either about a constant 5 volts, or pulsing on and off 12 volts, averaging 5 volts (older bimetallic strip style)
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photoghog
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

mikedjames wrote:
If it uses a Zener diode type stabiliser (voltage regulator) for the fuel gauge (more modern): if you accidentally short 12 volts to the output side of the stabiliser, it will blow the internal diode, which will then go open circuit, leaving the output stuck at 12 volts.
Also if the voltage regulator loses its earth, coming loose, it will produce 12 volts.
Check the voltage on the output of the regulator is either about a constant 5 volts, or pulsing on and off 12 volts, averaging 5 volts (older bimetallic strip style)


I bet that's want happened. When I pulled the dash plate out, the 12v wire was loose and shorted on the metal plate and blew the fuse. Replace the gauge I'm guessing?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

no - the regulator. Do you have a stereo in the bus? If so it will be a zener diode unit. If not it will be a heated bimetallic unit. The difference is that the heated one will cause clicks in the radio as it cycles.

113957099A

example https://www.amazon.com/Dade-113957099A-Vibrator-Speedometer-Beetle/dp/B01H1BVNQA

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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photoghog
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

mikedjames wrote:
If it uses a Zener diode type stabiliser (voltage regulator) for the fuel gauge (more modern): if you accidentally short 12 volts to the output side of the stabiliser, it will blow the internal diode, which will then go open circuit, leaving the output stuck at 12 volts.
Also if the voltage regulator loses its earth, coming loose, it will produce 12 volts.
Check the voltage on the output of the regulator is either about a constant 5 volts, or pulsing on and off 12 volts, averaging 5 volts (older bimetallic strip style)


I bet that's want happened. When I pulled the dash plate out, the 12v wire was loose and shorted on the metal plate and blew the fuse. Replace the gauge I'm guessing?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

why did you double post half an hour later when the answer was given to you along with a photo out of a 77 bus for your wiring reference.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
why did you double post half an hour later when the answer was given to you along with a photo out of a 77 bus for your wiring reference.

Perhaps it was accidental. I hit submit and closed my computer. When I opened my computer after dinner, it was at the submit screen so I assumed it didn't go through so I resubmitted the form. Apologies for the inconvenience
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
no - the regulator. Do you have a stereo in the bus? If so it will be a zener diode unit. If not it will be a heated bimetallic unit. The difference is that the heated one will cause clicks in the radio as it cycles.

113957099A

example https://www.amazon.com/Dade-113957099A-Vibrator-Speedometer-Beetle/dp/B01H1BVNQA

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There is a stereo in the bus. My setup is identical to this pic. Thanks for taking the time to send it
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photoghog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
no - the regulator. Do you have a stereo in the bus? If so it will be a zener diode unit. If not it will be a heated bimetallic unit. The difference is that the heated one will cause clicks in the radio as it cycles.

113957099A

example https://www.amazon.com/Dade-113957099A-Vibrator-Speedometer-Beetle/dp/B01H1BVNQA

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks for the suggestion and link. I now have a fully operational gas gauge again
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

kudos for hanging in there and glad it works. I had lots of trouble with my 1977 gauge and it was a bad factory wire connector crimp. I just happened to hit the wire with my hand one day when working on it and the gauge dropped then came back up a few seconds later. Touched the wire again and it did it again. Replaced the crimp and it has been rock solid since. We originally though it was a defective zener causing voltage fluctuations, but it was the crimp.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
kudos for hanging in there and glad it works. I had lots of trouble with my 1977 gauge and it was a bad factory wire connector crimp. I just happened to hit the wire with my hand one day when working on it and the gauge dropped then came back up a few seconds later. Touched the wire again and it did it again. Replaced the crimp and it has been rock solid since. We originally though it was a defective zener causing voltage fluctuations, but it was the crimp.


You don't know how excited I am to not to have to guess how much fuel I have.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: gas gauge issues Reply with quote

just be aware that bus gauges can be fine one day and goofy on a trip a day later. ALWAYS keep an eye on how many miles it has been from the last fill up.
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