How do you like your joints?

[Classicvibe]

CV joints (rear) are pretty affordable, and man, installing the whole thing at once is sooooo much nicer than tearing one apart, cleaning, looking for wear, adjusting, re-lubricating, ordering new boots and hardware, rebuilding (not for those who don't appreciate a good puzzle), and then doing all that to the other side of the CV (yikes), and reinstalling.

I am OK with buying the new part, I think they are like $150, but I have this old CV joint staring at me now, and Mr. Eco is trying to make me feel bad for not rebuilding the old one. Now the other side appears to be kissed, and I don't know if I can stand the pressure of two CV axles chilling, staring be down every time I hop in my van with the new younger CVs carrying me down the road.

If I think about all the places that deserve my time and labor, this seems like the wrong place, with such a simple fix out there. I mean, what about that stupid fuel gauge that has disappeared from the window, or installing that de-coupler nob, or fixing those seams, or, or, or...

What did you do, rebuild or buy new? What did you do with your old parts? Is there a re-builder that will take them off your hands for a few bucks?

By the way, Ben has some nice comforting photos and dialogue just in case you are not familiar with this project.
http://benplace.com/cv_joint_maintenance.htm

CVs will last a long time when maintained properly, but I have yet to maintain "Properly" in any of my VWs. This is good info for all IMO.
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2022...see you there!

1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender Transporter

[ZimZam]

Phat
_________________
'85 Cabriolet (Margo)
'87 Westy (Heidi)
'75 Porsche 911S Targa

"Nobody trusts anyone, or why did they put tilt on a pinball machine.”
- Steve McQueen
"It's just metal, when rusted and dented , anything you will do will be better. Stop being afraid. What they (VW) did many year ago is not better then what you will do now." -Ben

[Franklinstower]

Bob Marley thick.

But CV style wise, I just installed rebuilt shafts from Schucks....All for joints plus the shafts were the same cost as two no lobros. So take a chance I did. So far, so good. only about 5k miles.
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug

[RCB]

I would stick to the original manufactured joints if it were me. Thats a dirty job and not something you want to do that often. Im not sure of the brand of CV's come with the shaft..but let your pocket book be your guide.

Now on a personal note, the older I get, the more Glucosamine/Chondroitin Id like in my joints...

[Tom Powell]

perhaps I'm naive
I thought rolling a fatty meant driving a bay
Aloha
tp

[jbeaulie]

Be careful. Aftermarket CV's + axles (i.e., half shafts) can cause problems. Here's how I know.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=387587&highlight=hole+axle+cap

[Wildthings]

My normal maintenance of CV joints it to stick a needle under the boot and add some extra grease every 50K or so. Working the grease into the bearing area by massaging the boots. Other than that I never pull a joint unless forced to do so because of a boot failure (which I haven't had in a long long time) or having to pull the tranny. Joints are easy to clean, this is a place for a nice fat new roll of kitchen style paper towels, save your shop rags and parts cleaner for other uses.

OEM joints are good for better than 300K of normal driving with only two or three boot replacements so I see little reason to try to go cheap and buy axles of lesser quality that may mean you need to deal with them more often.

[syncrosimon]

Agree with the kitchen paper towel method.

My wife was sure happy to see me working in the kitchen!! It was January though.
_________________
1991 16" 2.1 DJ Syncro factory hightop ex Finnish Army Ambulance, now sold.
Thinking about Thing or 181 (182) ownership.

[kenwilfy]

We have installed and sold many, many sets of the newly made axles and haven't had any problems to date. The axles are made in China and sold here under the brand names of either EMPI or FEQ but I haven't had a problem with either of these. They are completely new axle assemblies and are much superior to "rebuilt" axles that I have had fail on me in the past. The rebuilt units simply took old CV joints and after cleaning and measuring everything either put them back together with new balls or machined the cages and races and put in larger ball bearings. The result seemed to be accelerated wear on the machined CV joints. I think they would machine past the surface hardening and then they would wear out quick. The new axles we sell for $125 and I have been impressed with how they have held up over the years. The one post about the axle tearing up the drive flange seal could have been caused by someone using a longer Auto trans shaft on a manual by mistake. That is why you only buy your parts from a Vanagon specialist parts store so you not only get good parts, but someone who knows what they are selling is the right thing. Hope this helps.
_________________
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
856-327-4936

[ftp2leta]

Nice to see you here Ken

At the time I did that page.... i was stupid and didn't have the shop (8-10 years ago). The funny thing is that those axle (in the page above) are still working fine today!!! This was my old 87 Vanagon, i still know the owner.

I installed about 35-40 Empi, had problem with one, no 2, same batch. They are way stiffer when new. Last year coming from Florida i fried 2 Lobro. But I know why now, not enough grease supply in the kit. And i should add cheap grease (friend of mine is a engineer in oil product). On top, my van is always fully loaded and i drive it hard.

Who would be crazy enough to do such a messy job
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[kenwilfy]

Ben, I hate packing CV joints. It is super messy. I had a guy here several years ago that made a special tool just to pack CV joints out of a calking gun and a coffee can. He cut the can and welded it to the end of the gun, then used the CV joint grease that is in the grease gun cartridge. I think I am going to make one of these for myself. You can pack a joint in less than 30 seconds with no mess. Just thought I would share that idea with you. Have a great one!
_________________
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
856-327-4936

[?Waldo?]

I won't use anything other than new lobro joints. The Empi shafts are significantly looser when new. There are also several different lengths of shafts despite the online parts databases reducing them down to only a couple and maintaining the correct shaft length is a good idea. The rebuilt axles from your FLAPS are not even a slight temptation. I've seen several that were so loose the balls would fall out in the box and it looked like the "rebuilding" was done freehand with a 4-1/2" Makita grinder. I'd feel better about putting saw dust in the transmission. No thanks. I have only seen excellent quality and tight clearances with the lobro joints. Beware also of aftermarket boots. I've seen them all cracked up less than 6 months after installation... None of the cost "savings" offsets the added work of using the cheaper parts... [jeez, I sound like T.K.]

[presslab]

I repacked my joints, it's a great way to get down and dirty with your van. Kind of a zen thing and you know it's done right.

Cost effective to repack them? Nope...
_________________
1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti

[edgood1]

The REAR aftermarket axle assemblies I've seen are much better quality than the FRONT SYNCRO axle assemblies. The boots on the front axles are nowhere near as stiff as the OEM boots and the joints seem more loose. I replaced my front axles with Lobro and I might consider trying out the EMPI on the rear of my syncro as long as I keep the 2.1. The rears are easier to replace than the fronts.

I've heard from bus depot that the EMPI rear axle failure rate increases with more powerful engines.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia

[deprivation]

One of the very first jobs I did when I got my van was the CVs and rear axle hubs. Very messy and a hell of a lot of fun. I didn't screw around when I replaced the bad joints - I used Lobro.

You can see what a crusty mess everything was. Some of the CVs were pretty burned.

The hubs all cleaned up and ready to go back together

I attached the axle to the hub before installation. Is this a good idea? I don't know - it didn't make things easier or harder.

I've mentioned this before but the MEYLE boots fell apart almost immediately. I replaced them with EMPI boots which have lasted 20,000 and look great.

Oh - and to the original question: I like my joints any way I can get them!

-
_________________
1986 Westy 2WD auto a.k.a. "The Old Girl"
www.kittenfart.com

[sc-surfer]

[Classicvibe]

I took pictures of what happened to me yesterday, but I just don't have the heart to put them up here, and you will see that pics are not necessary. Here is one thing I learned after replacing both rear axles:

I don't know if it is possible to over-tighten using simple tools!

Oh man I am pist at myself...another live and learn thing.

So I have been thinking for the last week "I should really get under there and check all those bolts to make sure they have not backed out." I even bought some locktite-holy shadt that stuff is expensive. Anyway, I planned to do it tomorrow, so of course, coming back from the in-laws, after a day or working on the stereo upgrade, my battery was low from playing tunes while working, and with the entire family in the vehicle I decided to bump start since my battery was low. I heard a lovely "snap" and knew exactly what had happened. I calmly grabbed my socket wrench and 6mm allen, removed the transmission side of my right rear axle (the side that did NOT have all 6 bolts sheer off) put the axle in the car, engaged the rear tranny lock and limped home swearing at myself.

I was feeling all proud of myself...it was one of those great spring sunny days, where you do all kinds of great vanagon install stuff, like 3 new 3 point belts for the kids, some amp wiring, some cleaning and other improvements. As if my van needs any help with shit breaking. I need to raise my game if I intend to do the work on this van.

OK, so a couple of questions. How tight is tight? I asked my local shop, and they said they did not use a torque wrench, they simply "layed into it." So, anyone use lock-tite on those mothers? I also bought replacement from my local nut and bolt shop. They are like 1/16 shorter, does that seem ok?

On the other hand, I got to walk back from the shop with a big Mocha in the sunshine this morning, so it is not a total loss. In case you need to, your local sears carries an Easy Out tool to revers the screws out, which is easy if you have messed with them recently. I don't have the heart to mess , and they owed me a little work anyway.

So even if you do not have any recommendations, and you have noob tendencies like me, obey the following:
* tighten those little MFs up!
* check them (by the way, mine ALL loosened on the wheel side first)
* replace the bolts when you do work (I did not, which may have contributed)
* listen for tranny clanks (this may indicate you have some play in the axle (among other things!)) - in and out of gear, disengaging the clutch
* if the bolts are loose, the sealed bearing will open and grease will spin everywhere. Re-lube

Anyway, just a little FYI. I am sure others WOULD NEVER make this mistake, so just laugh at my expense and enjoy the fruits of your educated van maintenance.
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2022...see you there!

1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender Transporter

[randywebb]

from the pic above these look a lot like the CV's used on Porsche 911s

a guy has had some special locking bolt circlip assemblies made & they are on a thread on the 1st page or 2 of the Pelican 911 technical bbs

I think they are a nice gold-plate solution to a problem that need not exist.

I do this on my 911 (have not done the VW):
1. Inspect the old bolt threads & wrenching feature - re use if ok
2. ALWAY use new Schnorr washers (a type of Belleville washer) - these are the serrated things with a concave face
3. Inspect the moon plates & reuse if ok
4. Clean out every teeny bit of grease from the female threads in the CV and on the bolt - use Q-tips and brake cleaner spray - this is a critical step & often ignored; install the bolts dry
5. Always use a torque wrench & the correct torque
6. Drive 100 miles and re-check the torque

I do not use Loctite or safety wire, and have never had a failure. I have never heard of a failure when the above is followed, including street cars, track cars, and rallye cars...

If VW says do it differently than the above, then follow there directions.

[Vanagon Nut]

If I might add a few more tips for the newb.

If possible, use the VW serrated washers. Mine have been working fine with *some* wavy thin washers. But. I pair up each type.

I also use Blue locktite. (med strength) Overkill I know. But piece of mind.

Use a torque wrench. I check torque on all bolts 2 or more times.

My 1/4" extension fits nice in CV bolt holes. Helps clear out most of any excess grease before sliding bolts through.

Use all the same type of bolt head. Don't mix or you or next guy might be in there wrecking an allen head with the star head tool.



Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Alaric.H]

I toque CVs at 35ft lb