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NoBudgetVWGarage Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2008 Posts: 755 Location: Quartz Hill,CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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I recently installed an 091 and a 2L in my 72. I didn't do any drilling in my tube.
I did need longer lower studs, and I had to shim the too long cable. I'm not sure but I think I used my clutch/flywheel from the 1700 because everything was still new. Stock shifter was in my lap when in reverse... and second was pretty close to me but not impossible to drive.
I recently installed a Scat shifter in my Bus and it definitely shortened the throw on my shifter which helped. _________________ 1969 Transporter
1968 Ghia
1959 Ghia Hot VW Drag Car |
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vw donvieira Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 617 Location: stockton, California
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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awesome write up _________________ "No Give Up" |
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vw donvieira Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 617 Location: stockton, California
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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great topic. I am prepping to do this in my 1971 _________________ "No Give Up" |
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Thunder Bunny Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2009 Posts: 12 Location: South Afirca
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Have any of you guys done this the other way around? I have a 3 rib gearbox that I want to install in my '77 2lt Bay. |
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1086 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Yes it cam be done but I would advise against it. VW went from the 002 to the 091 for a reason. Mainly to handle the 2.0L motor and make it more manageable on the highway. The 002 will not take the added horsepower over the long haul and wear out faster than the 091.
Also the 002 has a lower ring and pinion ratio than the 091. 5.375 to 1 for the 002 versus the 091's ratio of 4.57 to 1. So with the 002 your top speed will be lower and your rpm will be higher. Gas mileage will no doubt drop too.
The negatives far out weigh the positives to go this route. |
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Istquai Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015 Posts: 7 Location: Poland
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Can I use flange 10mm to fit SR87 starter in 002 transmission? Something like this
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reservoirdubs Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2007 Posts: 177 Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Super good post.
Will the 210mm flywheel/pressure plate work on an 091 transaxle with the 091 bellhousing? _________________ 1960 Canadian Custom
1970 Double Cab
1972 Porsche 914 |
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1961bluebug Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002 Posts: 1137 Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Hello! So here I´m because I have found a dead horse to beat the s*** out. This is not a "how to question", but a "should I?" type of question.
I found a very good 2 ltr 6 rib transmission for a fair price (very hard to do these days! I need a qualified opinion if my engine will handle this gearbox. My bus is a walkthrough ´68 with very basic interior, I do not plan to haul a lot of passengers or stuff. The engine is a well built 1835 singleport with Kadrons, good compression, quality exhaust, stock weight flywheel and good clutch plate. Full stock doghouse cooling, and I can add oil cooler very easily if needed.. I roll on stock 185/82x14" tires.
My goal is to lower my rpms and noise. At this moment I think that the stock ttransmission is limiting the engine and I´m rollin 60 at almost 4000rpm! I´m interested what will we find inside old gearbox as it is stamped as an original German VW factory exchange piece there could be a surprise, mountain ring and pinion maybe?
I´d love to hear you!
Thanks!
_________________
|82x94|
1961 Deluxe beetle, 1971 type 181, 1968 T2a Baywindow, 1973 Type 147 "Swiss Fridolin"(sold), 1966 Deluxe sedan (sold), 1983 "Silver Bug" edition (sold), 1961 beetle (sold) |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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with your lighter weight tin top and built up motor you should be ok.
if anything you'll have to downshift into 3rd sooner or on lower inclines than before. but you'll go faster in 3rd so it's a wash.
you'll need to keep your old bell housing and I'm not sure if the input shaft needs to be swapped over too. just a gotcha to look out for. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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vw donvieira Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 617 Location: stockton, California
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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I just pulled my 002 and am prepping the 091 for install.
Side by side the 091 is only slightly longer than the 002. Will keep you updated on the install.
vwdon _________________ "No Give Up" |
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EDragnDean Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 1148 Location: Vancouver, WA
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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I read through this thread, my situation is I picked up a 1970 bus that had a 091 already installed (1976). I assume the nose cone was switched. Shifts through the gears even with the wrong clutch by the PO. Starter works, although looks like a standard T1 flywheel. 1600cc T1 motor
Help me understand what I got and what needs to be done.
Appears to me it still has the 091 bell housing.
Input shaft extends approx. 1 inch beyond the bell housing.
Clutch/PP is a 200mm and obviously, I need to remove the centering ring as the trans has the guide.
Do I just need the a 200mm clutch without centering ring and cut 11mm off the input shaft?
_________________ 63 Double Cab http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443823&highlight=deanos
66 Bus Click to view image - SOLD
73 Thing http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8111202#8111202
70 BusClick to view image |
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vw donvieira Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 617 Location: stockton, California
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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This thread pretty much answers all your questions you posed.
-These guys really do their research and have great info. Just follow their lead.
vwdon _________________ "No Give Up" |
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EDragnDean Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 1148 Location: Vancouver, WA
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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vw donvieira wrote: |
This thread pretty much answers all your questions you posed.
-These guys really do their research and have great info. Just follow their lead.
vwdon |
Yes and no... 091 with a 091 bellhousing and input shaft, i need to shorten the shaft by 11mm so it doesn't bottom out (get it, was just asking for confirmation).
It seems the general direction is to replace the bellhousing with an 002 -- don't have that option, but also don't understand the reason as the 091 is slightly longer, but i can still get the mustache bar in. still has the 71 starter which was engaging when motor was in the car.
I'm running a 200mm clutch on a type 1 flywheel, and the previous posts mention a 228mm clutch, which i guess i dont understand.
The only other issue i can see based on the posts is the clutch cable length, which can be addressed at the bowden tube or washers at the adjustment point.
So...
1 - verify cutting off 11mm from the input shaft
2 - will the 200mm clutch work?
3 - fiddle with the clutch cable
4 - nose mount etc i dont need to address, trans in the car and shifting through gears. _________________ 63 Double Cab http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443823&highlight=deanos
66 Bus Click to view image - SOLD
73 Thing http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8111202#8111202
70 BusClick to view image |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1086 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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The 091 bell housing will not work with the 200mm flywheel. you will have starter engagement issues at the very least. Waste time money and turn perfectly good parts into junk at the very most. if you are running a type 1 engine you need the 002 bell housing. I thought we covered that part? We didn't cover that part? |
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EDragnDean Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 1148 Location: Vancouver, WA
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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sodbuster wrote: |
The 091 bell housing will not work with the 200mm flywheel. you will have starter engagement issues at the very least. Waste time money and turn perfectly good parts into junk at the very most. if you are running a type 1 engine you need the 002 bell housing. I thought we covered that part? We didn't cover that part? |
Hmmm, maybe back off on the caffeine? The previous paged imply there are multiple setups... sorry for asking questions. As stated, I'm stepping into this, a change to 091 was not my intent.
From the previous page...
Both Input shafts (Rear drive shafts)(clutch shaft) carry the 091 part number and can be used in either the 002 or 091 Transmissions.
So to simplify things, let refer to them as the
Short snout Type I, Input shaft, (287MM OVERALL LENGTH)
Long snout Type IV, Input shaft, (298MM OVERALL LENGTH)
Converted, with 11mm cut off Long snout .
So let's break it down
Type I engine, 002 Bell housing = Short snout input shaft, SR15 or SR17 Starter
Type I engine, 091 Bell housing = Long snout input shaft, SR87 Starter
Type I engine, 002 Bell housing = Converted (11mm) input shaft, SR15 or SR17 Starter
Type IV engine, 002 Bell housing = Long snout input shaft, SR15 or SR17 Starter
Type IV engine, 091 Bell housing = Long snout input shaft, SR87 Starter _________________ 63 Double Cab http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443823&highlight=deanos
66 Bus Click to view image - SOLD
73 Thing http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8111202#8111202
70 BusClick to view image |
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EDragnDean Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 1148 Location: Vancouver, WA
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vw donvieira Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 617 Location: stockton, California
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Type I engine, 091 Bell housing = Long snout input shaft, SR87 Starter
Yes that section you posted was somewhat confusing.
-I suspect the section you had bold that I copied/pasted may be your setup.
-If so it seems confusing to me for the reason:
The long snout shaft is not compatible on a type I because of the gland nut configuration. The splines would not properly align. Please correct me if I am wrong.
-If you plan to run Type I take the time/money to set it up correctly. This will give you many many miles of reliable service.
-Being in WA you have lots of VW technicians at your disposal.
Good luck vwdon _________________ "No Give Up" |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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Here is what I can remember from doing several swaps:
Input shaft has to match the engine
Starter has to match the bellhousing
You can't use a 228 clutch with a 002 bellhousing without doing some clearancing
To get proper shifter location you need to either stay with the nose cone for your model year or adjust the length of the shift rod by ~10mm
The engine to tranny mounting studs length need to match the bellhousing.
When using an 091 nose cone in earlier years you may need to clearance the frame member just forward of the transmission |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1248 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Who's installed an 091 Transmission in an early Bay? |
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I had a Type-1 engine with a wasserboxer crank, 228 type-4 flywheel, 5 rib bell housing, 5-rib nosecone and 68 box in a 68 bus. I used the 68 input shaft and fitted the bearing in the flywheel. It all worked somehow.
The 68 box didn't like 7,000rpm and broke.
Next was same engine with a stock 6-rib in the same 68. Bearing removed from flywheel and back in the crank. That worked too.
As for the linkage I didn't change it at all, I didn't even adjust the stop plate.
Next up a 2L and stock 6-rib in a 74 that started life with a 1600 and 002 box. Perversely this has been more trouble. The rear shift coupler hit the crossmember in 4th. It went into gear and seemed fine. I didn't realise it was hitting but after a while it started to jump out of 4th. By the time I flund the cause 4th was kaput. I've never heard of this before. New box and offending cross member butchered out of the way. The engine/box is as far back as it'll go, I can barely get the foam seal in. All good now but something to watch out for.
All in all, swapping gearboxes and parts of them seems a fairly forgiving hobby. I had 5 different boxes in my 68 in one week and never had to adjust the shift. |
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