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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
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 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Freshening up the auto trans: what to buy, what to do list |
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So, could someone clarify that the cover needs 2 O rings? And also that they are the same size? I have an O ring confusion in my kit. One seems to match the 3mm dia cross section and overall diameter, but the other is larger diameter and a thicker cross section and is a grey material (other is black). tx
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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furrylittleotter
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Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: West Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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You might decide the aftermarket cooler is a better option. Do your research.
Neil2 |
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devesvws
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Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 1540
Location: madison va
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
That last little bit can be tough..there are some splines that need to get lined up.
I put the diff face down and drop the automatic on it..get your trusted assistant to spin the diff by turning the output flanges while you slowly lower the auto on the unit.
You will need to put some bolts in the output flanges to get a good grip.
Go slow..it will drop on when all the splines line up. Gravity is your best friend here. |
Thanks again. I got it last night.
I was using the auto on top/diff on bottom technique. That seemed to work the best.
Once we jiggled it around and got the splines lined up it dropped down just past the gasket. I finished it up by tightening down on each nut slowly until it was completely connected. Felt super smooth and looked good. It's connected to the Bostig and in the van. Hopefully that's the end of transmission work for a while. We'll see if it works when I take it for its first drive tomorrow.
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"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:13 am Post subject: |
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That last little bit can be tough..there are some splines that need to get lined up.
I put the diff face down and drop the automatic on it..get your trusted assistant to spin the diff by turning the output flanges while you slowly lower the auto on the unit.
You will need to put some bolts in the output flanges to get a good grip.
Go slow..it will drop on when all the splines line up. Gravity is your best friend here. |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm trying to mate up the differential with the transmission, and I can't seem to get it to go together the entire way. I've been at if for an hour now. The lip goes just past the gasket, and then it stops. It needs to go together another 5-6mm to completely "mate". Any ideas what might be causing this? It doesn't appear that the gasket is the culprit. I have the gasket coated with a pretty good coating of vaseline. What else should I check?
This is the only thing keeping me from putting the Bostig in tonight, so quick help would be very much appreciated.
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"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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mross
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2003
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| indytriple wrote: |
Another issue I have is that the nut that holds the dipstick to the pan is really stuck. I've been trying to loosen it by alternately soaking it with Aero-Kroil and getting on it with an adjustable wrench and a breaker bar. It's going to be a PITA for sure. I would think that using heat in this area would be problematic with the ATF fluid, but I'm open to ideas.
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I had this same problem with my baywindow (same transaxle, though). I ended up taking the pan off of the transaxle so that I could get a box end on the big nut (I think it's 22mm, $8 for the wrench at Napa down here). Don't use an adjustable wrench if it's stuck, it will round the nut. Anyway, clean the pan real well, but don't use anything chlorinated (brake cleaner) as it will give off phosgene when heated with a torch. I used dish soap and a scrub brush. Anyway, heat it up with a plumbing torch right where the nut screws into the pan, have someone hold the pan down flat, put the box end on it and pull like heck. If that doesn't do it, heat it up longer and try again, maybe tap the wrench with a hammer if it's real stuck. |
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JeffRobenolt
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1513
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:01 am Post subject: |
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The Audi internals are really hard to find, start looking now.
I do have one of the bigger direct/reverse clutch.
The forward clutch is the same between the two except the Audi had an extra clutch disc in it by using a stepped pressure plate to allow for the extra thickness.
VW offered like 5 different thicknesses. You need to assemble then measure to see which you need.
I got lucky and found a diagram online that listed the part #'s and I found only 1 of the size I needed when I had the dealer search the whole country.
You probably could have a machinist step the stock pressure plate to the right thickness.
The set of 4 pinion planetaries will be the hardest to find.
Have to get it done by BBTB. I might have to take the Crusty Syncro, out of 4 vans it is the only runner.
Jeff
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Should I definitely do this? The transmission was shifting fine when I took it out, and I haven't removed the brake band during this process. Is it better to leave well-enough alone? I found the instructions in the Bentley, and I have a nice torque wrench, but I'm not a fan of touching things that don't need to be touched.
In that you had the piston out to reseal..I would. It is a good way to confirm you have the band correctly seated at both ends too.[/quote]
| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
| If it were me..I would go ahead and replace all the friction discs, metal clad seals and the brake band too. You are doing just fine though. Do what is comfortable. |
Yeah, I've realized that this kind of transmission work is a really slippery slope. No matter how much I do there is almost always more that could be done. My thinking in this case is that I am planning on getting a different, rebuilt transmission w/Audi internals and a Peloquin TBD next winter, so I don't necessarily need this thing to be bombproof for tens of thousands of miles. Also, it was working flawlessly when I removed it from the van (knock on wood). Finally, we have a company event in less than two weeks, and I want to have the van done in time if possible. Even after the transmission is put back together, I still have to get the Bostig in.
That adventure can be seen in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538722
AtlasShrugged, I really appreciate all of the advice and help that you have provided in this thread. It has been very valuable. Thanks.
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"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Should I definitely do this? The transmission was shifting fine when I took it out, and I haven't removed the brake band during this process. Is it better to leave well-enough alone? I found the instructions in the Bentley, and I have a nice torque wrench, but I'm not a fan of touching things that don't need to be touched.
In that you had the piston out to reseal..I would. It is a good way to confirm you have the band correctly seated at both ends too.
If it were me..I would go ahead and replace all the friction discs, metal clad seals and the brake band too. You are doing just fine though. Do what is comfortable. |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
A spring should of fallen out too..did you find it?
I can't seem to find the rubber o-ring (large) and the oil hole seal rubber o-ring (tiny) that go underneath this cover plate that houses the pinion oil seals:
It should of been in there..I probaly have a spare..what size is the small "O" ring?
Beautiful work. |
Yep, I found the spring and put it back in.
I also found the rubber o-rings for the cover plate and oil hole seal. They were buried in the myriad of o-rings in the kit. I was thrown off a bit because the new o-rings for the cover plate and the oil hole seal are green, and the old ones were black.
I'm going to take the tranny to my local mechanic later this week to have them press in the seals. I tried to do it myself without the proper tools, and I failed miserably. Two attempts equaled two booger-ed drive axle seals. My mechanic is going to do them all for me (drive axle seals, torque converter seals, and differential seals) while I wait for about $20. Sounds good to me.
| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
| You will want to re-torque the brake band adjustment screw per the Bentley too. |
Should I definitely do this? The transmission was shifting fine when I took it out, and I haven't removed the brake band during this process. Is it better to leave well-enough alone? I found the instructions in the Bentley, and I have a nice torque wrench, but I'm not a fan of touching things that don't need to be touched.
_________________
"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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A spring should of fallen out too..did you find it?
I can't seem to find the rubber o-ring (large) and the oil hole seal rubber o-ring (tiny) that go underneath this cover plate that houses the pinion oil seals:
It should of been in there..I probaly have a spare..what size is the small "O" ring?
Beautiful work. |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
The kit with all the soft seals and metal clad seals is about $41 plus shipping. Its more than you want. Best price though.
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/VW_010_overhaul_kit_1975_91_p/710-000071022.htm
You could call German Transaxle and they will have the seals you need. I don't know if they will sell each "O" ring or seal outside a gasket set..its worth asking.
http://www.germantransaxle.com/
On another note, can the 2nd gear brake band piston be completely removed and put back in place without removing the valve body or other internals?
No, you will need to remove the valve body..its not a hard job. You want to be sure the piston is seated on the brake band. You will want to re-torque the brake band adjustment screw per the Bentley too. |
I bought the kit that you recommended, and everything went well. Thanks for the advice. I'm now trying to finish up the differential. I can't seem to find the rubber o-ring (large) and the oil hole seal rubber o-ring (tiny) that go underneath this cover plate that houses the pinion oil seals:
Does anyone have any suggestions on where to find those? Right now, those are the only thing keeping me from buttoning this job up and mating this to the Bostig.
Here are a few pics of the 2nd gear brake band piston job. Removing the piston and replacing the seals and o-rings was very simple. These are the pieces involved:
This vertical shaft pin has to be removed and then put back into position when removing and replacing the valve body.
Removing the 11 identical screws that hold the valve body on.
What it looks like on the underside with the valve body removed.
When the 2nd gear brake band piston comes out, it will pop out of the brake band. You have to preload the band with a tool like a screwdriver while you put the brake band piston back into position. This is why you have to remove the valve body to do this job. You can see where the interface is in this picture:
The brake band piston is a real bear to get back into position. After 5-10 minutes of struggling I resorted to a pair of large c-clamp vise grips, which worked perfectly to squeeze the piston into position so I could replace the snap ring that holds it all inside.
I have no idea what this is or what it is called, but it fell out when I had the valve body off. I noticed that I had a seal for it in the kit, so I replaced it while I was in there.
Here's everything all buttoned back up and ready for the pan to go back on. There is a new filter screen and paper gasket installed as well.
_________________
"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| madspaniard wrote: |
| indytriple wrote: |
| jrobewesty wrote: |
I'll have to ask Ken at German Transaxle of America (GTA).
I asked him if there was anything else to make the best van tranny besides the Audi parts and he just told me he modified rabbit valve bodies to put in Vanagons that shift firmer.
I just said put one in the mail then, maybe I should ask more Q's but I like spending $$$ on the van.
Jeff |
This option is no longer available from German Transaxle. It sounds like lack of parts and demand have killed it. I swear I noticed the difference on Jeff's van when I drove it. It seemed to have firmer, more pronounced shifting. Did you like or notice this upgrade, Jeff? |
Hi Indytriple
I was lucky to buy Jeff's auto tranny and just added some extra work to it thanks to GTA. Here is a summary of what my new rebuilt tranny features after the stuff Jeff added and GTA's later work: fully rebuilt auto section and Audi 5000T internals (four pinion planetary sets and extra clutch plates), valve body from VW Rabbit, new governor, fully rebuilt final drive with Peloquin torque biasing differential, custom torque converter with lower stall speed, external oil cooler and synthetic fluids. I ended up using VanCafe's external cooler, I like the fact that it has no hoses and it sits tucked in where the old stock cooler used to sit. I capped off the old coolant hoses. Jeff also gave me his tranny mount, I think he filled the air gaps with silicone to make it stronger.
I just picked up the van from the shop and I'm loving it although I was only able to put a few miles on it. The Rabbit valve body changed the shift points so it takes longer to shift from 2nd to D, shifts at higher rpm so you feel you have better use of the engine. Smooth shifting too. The custom torque converter with lower stall speed makes the stock engine just a tiny bit slower off the mark but not enough to make a big difference. It will work great with an engine conversion. I'm waiting for California approval on the executive order for 1.8T auto engine swap. |
Thanks, madspaniard. That is great feedback. Looking forward to hearing how it mates up with the 1.8T. That will be a sweet setup!
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"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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madspaniard
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Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| indytriple wrote: |
| jrobewesty wrote: |
I'll have to ask Ken at German Transaxle of America (GTA).
I asked him if there was anything else to make the best van tranny besides the Audi parts and he just told me he modified rabbit valve bodies to put in Vanagons that shift firmer.
I just said put one in the mail then, maybe I should ask more Q's but I like spending $$$ on the van.
Jeff |
This option is no longer available from German Transaxle. It sounds like lack of parts and demand have killed it. I swear I noticed the difference on Jeff's van when I drove it. It seemed to have firmer, more pronounced shifting. Did you like or notice this upgrade, Jeff? |
Hi Indytriple
I was lucky to buy Jeff's auto tranny and just added some extra work to it thanks to GTA. Here is a summary of what my new rebuilt tranny features after the stuff Jeff added and GTA's later work: fully rebuilt auto section and Audi 5000T internals (four pinion planetary sets and extra clutch plates), valve body from VW Rabbit, new governor, fully rebuilt final drive with Peloquin torque biasing differential, custom torque converter with lower stall speed, external oil cooler and synthetic fluids. I ended up using VanCafe's external cooler, I like the fact that it has no hoses and it sits tucked in where the old stock cooler used to sit. I capped off the old coolant hoses. Jeff also gave me his tranny mount, I think he filled the air gaps with silicone to make it stronger.
I just picked up the van from the shop and I'm loving it although I was only able to put a few miles on it. The Rabbit valve body changed the shift points so it takes longer to shift from 2nd to D, shifts at higher rpm so you feel you have better use of the engine. Smooth shifting too. The custom torque converter with lower stall speed makes the stock engine just a tiny bit slower off the mark but not enough to make a big difference. It will work great with an engine conversion. I'm waiting for California approval on the executive order for 1.8T auto engine swap.
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Wow, great thread! Plans to secure an automatic 87 Wolfsburg this spring in place and doing research already to make it roadworthy. Thanks for the info.
DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:28 am Post subject: |
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The kit with all the soft seals and metal clad seals is about $41 plus shipping. Its more than you want. Best price though.
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/VW_010_overhaul_kit_1975_91_p/710-000071022.htm
You could call German Transaxle and they will have the seals you need. I don't know if they will sell each "O" ring or seal outside a gasket set..its worth asking.
http://www.germantransaxle.com/
On another note, can the 2nd gear brake band piston be completely removed and put back in place without removing the valve body or other internals?
No, you will need to remove the valve body..its not a hard job. You want to be sure the piston is seated on the brake band. You will want to re-torque the brake band adjustment screw per the Bentley too. |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:05 am Post subject: |
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It is easier to get the fill nut loose with the transmission still in the vanagon..they can take some effort.
I would just remove the pan and tube together. A little cumbrous but better than warping or breaking something.
Here is a pictorial of a transmission rebuild. The back to back seals seem to have overwhelmed Joseph. Its not that big a deal.
http://www.josephpugh.com/?p=126 |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| jrobewesty wrote: |
I'll have to ask Ken at German Transaxle of America (GTA).
I asked him if there was anything else to make the best van tranny besides the Audi parts and he just told me he modified rabbit valve bodies to put in Vanagons that shift firmer.
I just said put one in the mail then, maybe I should ask more Q's but I like spending $$$ on the van.
Jeff |
This option is no longer available from German Transaxle. It sounds like lack of parts and demand have killed it. I swear I noticed the difference on Jeff's van when I drove it. It seemed to have firmer, more pronounced shifting. Did you like or notice this upgrade, Jeff?
_________________
"See The Glass As Already Broken."
87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
www.bluegrassbicyclecompany.com |
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