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'58/'59 Beetle Discussion
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Trayle D. the real oggfk
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The book I like the best for this sort of year to year information is VW BEETLE Authenticity Series by Bob Wilson. Its got good usually correct information with not to many errors while explaining things. Every now and them I come across something in it that I know isnt true and its usually something that has to do with dates and specific small changes. But for the most part it seem to be dead on. And it has a very well put together production chart and coulor combination chart in the back with dates by months and years. I really like it and have used it for years. And yes I know its not a Progressive Refinement book, I have people like Bob S. if I have question or I think my book is wrong, and Ive made ooodles of foot notes in it regarding questionable info.

The pictures above are pretty comprehensive. I just finished doing body work on a pair of 64 fender for my sunroof and a pair of 58-59 "wire tube" fenders at the same time. There are most definitely shape differences between the two fenders, not just where they meet the running board but with actual width of the fenders and shape of the area around the head light buckets as well. The running board part is easy to see, the other differences you really need one of each in hand to be able to tell...
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Last edited by Trayle D. the real oggfk on Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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outoftheoffice
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread here.

Nice 58 stale air, great color.
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mario_0609
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another picture of what is supposed to be a late 57/early 58, taken from Etzold's book. Too bad the front fenders aren't any clearer, but you can see the corner to the running board

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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check out my 22 Oct. '58 export bug restoration blog: http://black58.blogspot.com/
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a yeti photo, but pretty grainy and poorly lit. If you look close you can see the semaphore lines.

You can see the fender flare in the light reflection though. If the photo were better it might make for a good comparison to some of the later fenders pictured to date in this thread.
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"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
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mario_0609
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quality in the book is a little better. There you can roughly see the form of the fender. Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner, but I'll try to get it scanned somewhere.
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mario_0609
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright- I managed to get a hi-res scan of the image above.
you can download it here: http://img714.yfrog.com/img714/1785/1958hires.jpg (3.6MB)

I also played a little bit around in photoshop to make the front fender more visible. At the lower right corner, I had to guess a little bit...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also scanned a picture of a '65 convertible which is taken approx. from the same angle.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think I see a little difference between these two fenders, but we need to take into account that it's not the exact same angle.
I guess the only way to know is to have somebody with some photographic skills to make some well lit pictures of the various fender type from the exact same angle...
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have any suggestions as far as method for getting the exact same angle, I have those '58 and '64 fenders pictured earlier I can try to get some further comparison shots of.
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-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spectre6000 wrote:
If you have any suggestions as far as method for getting the exact same angle, I have those '58 and '64 fenders pictured earlier I can try to get some further comparison shots of.


Just my 2 cents here but it would help a LOT if they were not only in the same spot in the same light but also the same color. Different colors reflect light differently giving a different look many times.

Dave
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would lighter or darker be better?
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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mario_0609
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spectre6000 wrote:
If you have any suggestions as far as method for getting the exact same angle, I have those '58 and '64 fenders pictured earlier I can try to get some further comparison shots of.


yes, right. you got those. Almost forgot about your pictures Very Happy

just my ideas: I think I'd try to take some shots outside (even lightning) and to get them right next to each other - like put them on the back of a chair or so. And then I'd try to take each a shot plain from the front, from above, back and the side.

And then we need to find somebody to do the same shots with oval fenders Very Happy Very Happy
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those were outside on my driveway as close together as I could get them (laying down). I tried to get several degrees of rotation around the flare. None of those fenders are going to see any further use in their current paint, and I have some extra black enamel and some extra white primer that I wouldn't mind sacrificing for the cause. I'll also straighten out the '64 fender (it's a little worse for the wear).

The question is, which would give better shots? White or black?

I'll contribute '64 photos from every angle, as well as the not-precisely known-but-as-correct-as-I-can-tell-to-an-early-'59 vintage photos in whichever color is deemed best for comparison. Would someone care to chime in with some other years?

As a side note, a year-by-year, photos from every angle fender thread would make for some EXCELLENT sticky material. Everett would have to come in behind us and put them in the correct order as well as remove commentary, but that's a piece of information that is entirely lacking in all literature insofar as I can tell.
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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58Dub
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just sold my '58 fender...but let me know if you need any pics from '60
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please.
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-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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outoftheoffice
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this helps anything but here are a couple shots of my passenger fender (original) from my April 58; primered and with shiny paint. These show mostly the flare at the running board but I can try to get more photos of other angles if needed..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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mario_0609
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great. Thanks for sharing. This confirms spectre6000 pics from the previous page that 58 fenders have this sharp edge at the lower corner.
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check out my 22 Oct. '58 export bug restoration blog: http://black58.blogspot.com/
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been told they lose the majority of the flare (end up looking like the '64 fender) sometime mid-'59. Does anyone know (definitively) when that change occurred?

I think it's fascinating how things actually changed over time. It looks like the only changes that occurred on August 1, '58 were the colors. I went back and looked at my BC, and it was originally Garnet Red (a '59-only color) confirmed in those odd recesses and under seals that never see light or wear. Everything else about the car is wholesale '58 so far, but the color did in fact change before the beginning of September. It would make sense for marketing purposes as well (colors are the most visible change and the easiest to market). Who is really going to care about the number of ribs behind the spare when they're looking at a new car on the showroom floor?
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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58Dub
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple pics from my '60. The running board mount is much more of a smooth transition.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And the headlight buldge is not as pronounced
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Trayle D. the real oggfk
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive always believed that the fender changed shapes at the same time as the fenders lost the wire tube. Which I also always believed was half way threw(or round about) 1959. I know for a fact that I have seen unmolested 1959s without the wire tube holes in the spare tire well. Having said that, I also own a 1959 with wire tube front fenders and rear fenders with the press makes between the mounting holes. Ill have to go get the VIN #s to find out what month that car was made. BTW, if anyone has an OG paint L243 Diamond Gray hood and decklid I would be interested... LOL, just thougth I would throw that out there.
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. . . . . . .GERMAN FOLKS 602
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Trayle Duncan
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Stay'n sucka free for the 0000000000... Hell, from now on...
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like the '64 fender I shot had a more pronounced flare than that one... Anyone have any insight on that?
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-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trayle D. the real oggfk wrote:
Ive always believed that the fender changed shapes at the same time as the fenders lost the wire tube. Which I also always believed was half way threw(or round about) 1959. I know for a fact that I have seen unmolested 1959s without the wire tube holes in the spare tire well. Having said that, I also own a 1959 with wire tube front fenders and rear fenders with the press makes between the mounting holes. Ill have to go get the VIN #s to find out what month that car was made. BTW, if anyone has an OG paint L243 Diamond Gray hood and decklid I would be interested... LOL, just thougth I would throw that out there.


My early 59 had wire tube holes in the spare tire area and tube fenders when i got it.
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