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Matching Numbers
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ienjoyvws
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

I'm new to Bugs. My question is: When a car is "matching numbers", does that mean that the engine, body and the frame all have the exact same numbers stamped on them? I thought I have seen some ads say "matching numbers" and then display the number but they don't match. If matching numbers means that the number stamped on engine, body and frame match some other document or reference, please let me know how to look up the resource to make sure.
Thanks very much
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

im not a purist, so im sure one will chime in. i think typically its body and pan that match. then engine number is just an engine number. only way to verify it is the original engine to the car is via a birth certificate. but you can look up the engine number in the tech section here and it will tell you the approx build date
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

As stated above, matching numbers generally means the engine, body and pan are original to the car. Body and pan numbers will be the same. Engine numbers use different coding. An original engine can only be verified by ordering a birth certificate and specifically requesting that the provided engine serial number be verified.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

Numbers matching is different among everybody.
Beetle numbers chart

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

rcroane wrote:
As stated above, matching numbers generally means the engine, body and pan are original to the car. Body and pan numbers will be the same. Engine numbers use different coding. An original engine can only be verified by ordering a birth certificate and specifically requesting that the provided engine serial number be verified.


I was going to say you can extrapolate probably pretty darn close to what day a car was made and do the same for the engine, but it apparently isn't uncommon for the engine to be made up to a month or so prior to the car. Now if the engine number dates after the car was made, I don't see this as being possible unless there was a problem with the engine prior to leaving the factory and it was replaced?
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ienjoyvws
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

Where do I order a "birth certificate?"
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

ienjoyvws wrote:
I'm new to Bugs. My question is: When a car is "matching numbers", does that mean that the engine, body and the frame all have the exact same numbers stamped on them? I thought I have seen some ads say "matching numbers" and then display the number but they don't match. If matching numbers means that the number stamped on engine, body and frame match some other document or reference, please let me know how to look up the resource to make sure.

As other people said - Body and pan will match.
Body tag up front, pan VIN # is under the back seat

Engine is a different sequence of numbers but will be from the same month/year as the VIN #, according to these charts on the site:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php

ienjoyvws wrote:
Where do I order a "birth certificate?"

Information thread on the site:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
rcroane wrote:
As stated above, matching numbers generally means the engine, body and pan are original to the car. Body and pan numbers will be the same. Engine numbers use different coding. An original engine can only be verified by ordering a birth certificate and specifically requesting that the provided engine serial number be verified.


I was going to say you can extrapolate probably pretty darn close to what day a car was made and do the same for the engine, but it apparently isn't uncommon for the engine to be made up to a month or so prior to the car. Now if the engine number dates after the car was made, I don't see this as being possible unless there was a problem with the engine prior to leaving the factory and it was replaced?


To be more clear, the actual engine # will match up very close to the VIN # in the charts.
Every "original" car I've looked up could almost always be calculated down to the same week of the month and year in the charts here.
The exception would be cars that were made around the month change.
Example: A car with a VIN in early March might have an engine with a date that falls at the end of the previous month - February.

The actual engine production date, meaning the casting dates on the 2 engine case halves is earlier, of course.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

Look very closely at a 'matching numbers' VW as the data for what goes with what is out in the public, since redacted by VW

I have no doubt that unscrupulous people can renumber cars to match birth certificates.

You can now only confirm engine numbers to chassis via VW, but the cows have left the barn already.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

To the OP....FYI, birth certificates take 6-8 months to receive.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

Only other way to see if it is matching numbers is to have the original sales receipt for the car. I was lucky that the PO was a records keeping person, so I know what is original and what is not.

From what I understand about birth certs is they no longer tell you the engine number but can confirm if the number you supply matches.

When you start down this rabbit hole, you then start running into date coded parts, like wheels, the speedometer, etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching Numbers Reply with quote

rcroane wrote:
To the OP....FYI, birth certificates take 6-8 months to receive.

Laughing - and crying - because former employer Henkel of Germany has taken over 3 full months trying to correct a box on my 2017 W2 that should not have been checked.
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