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Bigger brake booster, improved brakes.
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wesitarz
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Low and firm or low and spongy?If you have 10mm plugs you could plug both MC outlets and pump pedal to isolate the MC, then one outlet only to isolate front or rear brake system as the problem. Did you bench bleed the MC.
Here's a pretty good article:http://www.winbrake.com/index.php/downloads/in-depth-training-guides/low-pedal-diagnosis
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pathao
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

You're talking about brake pedal right ? Reading what you've written (replacing booster) I guest you would have notice the ovaliziation of the brake pedal end.

My answer to your question

thasty07 wrote:
...

 

Just curious if anyone knows if the clevis pin is misadjusted and could cause this? It takes me 20 mins to pull the dash but I don't feel like doing it unless I know for sure that's probably the culprit.


 

 

this adjustment only determine the brake pedal height.

I've been chasing a rear brake drag on mine,  took out the hole shabang to only discover this. 

Let me explain.  The clutch pedal height is determined by the rubber stopper that is fitted into the aluminium pedal assembly, right !!!???  The clutch pedal comes to a rest on it (see what I talk about ?).

So this adjustment/dimension/distance is to make the brake pedal on the same level/height as the clutch's one

 

Also since there is only a rubber stop on the clutch side, there should be an air gap on the brake side. The brake pedal should not touch the aluminium pedal assy, because  that could mean that the brake booster inner return spring is still compress and that the atmospheric port stayed open and that could pretty well lead to brake drag. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sj5d48mcss (Also make sure that there is an air play between the firewall and the  brake pedal upper section -that nothing is jamming in there).


 

That rearing brake drag has me trying a lot of think : bypassing pressure regulator, plugging the booster's vacuum hose, hand brake adjustment, changing rear wheel bearing, killing rear hydraulic, ...

 

I do not have that much experience (someone else could fill in) but I think that  the big brake booster is making the brake feel "feathers light"  and feel like catching low.

 

You sure you bleeded good ? anydifference with hand brake on ?  How many click the hand brake is adjust ?

 
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boat_builder
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Just did this upgrade on my RHD van...
Some photos..
Had to trim the edge off the blower housing to clear the bigger unit.
Also had to slightly bend the right hand metal dash strut to clear the metal brake line.
And I trimmed the top edge off the brake reservoir to clear the dash clocks.

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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Did this today. No hiccups, goes just as Herman said. One thing to add- once you free up the pedal assembly you can easily see and reach the pin that the dreaded clutch pedal pivots on- it would be way easier to replace the worn clutch pedal this way then spending hours as I did under the dash contorting yourself. So if you're planning the brake booster you might do well to do the clutch pedal at the same time
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thasty07
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

wesitarz wrote:
Low and firm or low and spongy?If you have 10mm plugs you could plug both MC outlets and pump pedal to isolate the MC, then one outlet only to isolate front or rear brake system as the problem. Did you bench bleed the MC.
Here's a pretty good article:http://www.winbrake.com/index.php/downloads/in-depth-training-guides/low-pedal-diagnosis


The pedal goes deep and soft, the brakes dont have that "bite" to hold onto anything.

I did bench bleed the MC. My only thought is the booster clevis is not right and its not allowing it to have play. It seems if there is no play then it could not bleed properly.
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wesitarz
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

That's how mine felt at first. As you drive and gently depress the brake pedal,do the brakes engage? Do your G-60 calipers seem to move OK with little space between pad and rotor? Sticking? Both retracting just a little and evenly? My front G-57s had a lot of caliper flex,one retracted a lot more than the other and the retaining spring was too tight pulling the pads offline. Once I fixed the flex with solid pin bushings and loosened the spring, the pedal had a better feel,but still softer than stock and I could feel the brakes engaging near the top of the pedal travel. Before that I took it to a brake shop for a pro bleed where he suggested I look at the calipers. I have rear discs so have never dealt with the drums. When I did the MC test I found the front brake system to cause the softer pedal. I wasn't sure about my clevis pin,since my drilling and threading was not exactly straight,but the distance measured as recommended. I did go in again,recheck it and re-did it with a GoWesty clevis pin (not exactly the same as stock),stock measurement. Don't recall that it made much difference other than peace of mind. I have since gone to a larger MC,added 2 psi residual valves and a MC brace. Feel pretty good now. Next have to replace the rear rubber flex lines and maybe add an adjustable proportioning valve.
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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Holy brakes batman!!
I have the front and rear small car setup and my braking has been fairly mediocre. Finished installing new larger brake booster, new master cylinder (stock), cleaned and lubed the guide pins, adjusted the rear piston and parking brake, new drilled and vented Zimmerman rotors, new hawk high performance pads, all new stainless steel flex brake lines, and a flush and bleed and all I can say is wow! I had little hopes my heavy syncro westy with big tires could stop this well. I can lock up my brakes, there is a bite to the brakes, unlike the previous mush, and I think I can stop as fast as my 2016 Subaru. Anyone who is frustrated by their brakes, let it be known this is attainable without any sorcery! Thanks Herman and samba! You rock!!


Last edited by Pcforno on Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Pcforno wrote:
Holy brakes batman!!
I have the front and rear small car setup and my braking has been fairly mediocre. Finished installing new larger brake booster, new master cylinder (stock), cleaned and lubed the guide pins, adjusted the rear piston and parking brake, new drilled and vented Zimmerman rotors, new hawk high performance pads, all new metal brake lines, and a flush and bleed and all I can say is wow! I had little hopes my heavy syncro westy with big tires could stop this well. I can lock up my brakes, there is a bite to the brakes, unlike the previous mush, and I think I can stop as fast as my 2016 Subaru. Anyone who is frustrated by their brakes, let it be known this is attainable without any sorcery! Thanks Herman and samba! You rock!!


Damn Phil, you're doing a lot of of work on your van right now Wink
Enjoy the boots Smile

Aloha!
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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Thanks Alika!! I'm going to be ready for spring and summer trips this time!! Can't wait for the boots- finishing up a front end rebuild with 930s, fox shocks, and schwenk springs!
Aloha buddy!
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Pcforno wrote:
Thanks Alika!! I'm going to be ready for spring and summer trips this time!! Can't wait for the boots- finishing up a front end rebuild with 930s, fox shocks, and schwenk springs!
Aloha buddy!


Sick man!

I got silicone boots for 930 cv joints too if you need Wink
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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Shoot. I didn't know! Would've done em on the rear instead of that crap Chinese rubber. I'll send you a PM
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xclemjustinx
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

I recently just installed a Subaru engine and new 16 inch wheels. I'm looking to install new brakes and I wanted to see what you guys recommend. Should I upgrade to the a big brake kit and if so which kit do you guys recommend. Or should I just use the stock oem brakes and just replace the drums and rotors? Please let me know. Thanks.
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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Depends on how good you want your brakes. Could leave em stock and refresh them if you're satisfied. I have a Syncro westy that's heavy and didn't feel safe in long Rocky Mountain pass descents. If you do everything as in my above post, I've been very satisfied. All depends on what you're looking for and perhaps your vehicle weight too
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Hello!

if you stay stock, you could also install 1" diameter rear cylinders from a VW LT 28, I've put the part number out recently talking with Syncrogreg on a post I cannot remember, I think the parking brake issue one. A good mod found here on the Samba on an old thread.
Minor modification of the mounting dowel pin hole is required.
Part sold in Europe Wink
Cheers!
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xclemjustinx
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Well it's not a westy and I'm not hauling anything and I live in socal. Van cafe has a kit for the front and rear. I don't know if the big brake kit is worth is though. Def want to install new ss brake hoses. Hmmm
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Hi Herman

I read your original post many times and now I'm collecting parts to tackle the job.

Are there any other parts needed besides the booster and clevis? Like, does the stock breather valve work on the BMW booster? Do I need a new grommet, or gasket?

Thanks
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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Hey there - I'm not Herman but so long as the new booster has the rubber grommet the vanagon elbow fits perfect. And you don't need a new clevis. You drill and tap the old one.
Cheers
Phil
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Thanks Phil.
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Pcforno
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

90 - one other thing I'd recommend - when you change the booster the entire pedal assembly will be pulled up out of the dash and free - get the GW parts to replace the clutch pedal. I did it the "other way" below the dash and it's damn near impossible, only to find out later that it would have been easy to do with the booster job through the top of the dash Very Happy
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. Reply with quote

Pcforno wrote:
90 - one other thing I'd recommend - when you change the booster the entire pedal assembly will be pulled up out of the dash and free - get the GW parts to replace the clutch pedal. I did it the "other way" below the dash and it's damn near impossible, only to find out later that it would have been easy to do with the booster job through the top of the dash Very Happy


Yup, just squeeze the pedals together with one hand while pulling from the top: easy breezy
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