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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Perpel wrote: |
Can you share the part number on the bigger master cylinder? I'm surprised no one else is going for this option.
I've just installed the g60 big brakes on my 2wd westy.... BUT I a bigger master cylinder seems the best set-up with the g60s. |
The caliper piston area for the stock late model Vanagon brakes is 4.38. The piston area for the G60s is 4.40. That's not really enough difference to have a huge effect on the pedal feel/performance.
As has been mentioned, it sounds as if something else is the problem.
In addition, a larger master cylinder would indeed require less pedal travel, but it would also require a higher pressure at the brake pedal (you would have to push harder on the pedal) to create an equal pressure at the caliper compared to the original master cylinder.
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presslab
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| In addition, a larger master cylinder would indeed require less pedal travel, but it would also require a higher pressure at the brake pedal (you would have to push harder on the pedal) to create an equal pressure at the caliper compared to the original master cylinder. |
Yep. I could be happier with a smaller bore M/C as mine are so firm, so as to reduce the pedal effort. But really, it's fine. This bigger booster would give more assist as well, but sometimes too much vacuum assist makes the brakes feel funny. Like "doll brakes" where the pedal is position sensitive and not force sensitive. New cars seem to be like this and it irks me.
The brake pad area of the G60 is larger, and the rotors larger, so it makes them a bit more powerful. This is why I put the LT40 wheel cylinders on to keep things balanced.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti |
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Perpel
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hey All,
BIG Thanks for sharing your experience. I get the overall impression the G60 bakes should not have so much throw before biting the discs. AND thanks to Christopher I now know the caliper piston areas is nearly same as stock.
Pedal feel before replacing these front brakes was almost the same as now. Lot's of throw, a little spongy once your biting the disc. I was hoping for less throw and a firmer pedal.
I have changed the front soft lines to SS....rears are still stock. I'm quite sure I need new drums. They are original and have been machined as far as they can go. Could the rears be the problem?
The brake pedal feels stiffer if I pull the hand bake first.
Master cylinder was replaced 2 years ago by the PO. It's either gone bad or my rear brakes are an issue.
What else could it be?
Richard |
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Perpel
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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What's the scoop with LT40 wheels cylinders?
Thanks,
Richard |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Perpel wrote: |
What's the scoop with LT40 wheels cylinders?
Thanks,
Richard |
I didn't see any info about them,I might be mistaken on what you said but I know the syncro 16" drums are using stuff from an LT Volkswagen.I don't think wheels cylinders will change anything though.
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buspor63
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005
Posts: 1179
Location: Knoxville,TN Where America stops for gas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Perpel wrote: |
The brake pedal feels stiffer if I pull the hand bake first.
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Someone else mentioned this earlier. If your rear auto adjust is not working correctly, you may be having to expand the rear shoes with the first part of the pedal stroke. I've had a broken parking brake cable throw off the auto adjust on one rear that effected the total brake feel.
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Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro? |
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presslab
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Perpel wrote: |
| What's the scoop with LT40 wheels cylinders? |
Here is my post about them. Your problem likely won't be fixed by this though.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4764766#4764766
| Perpel wrote: |
| I'm quite sure I need new drums. They are original and have been machined as far as they can go. Could the rears be the problem? |
Machining the drums introduces a problem, which manifests itself as a soft pedal and/or reduced rear braking. The lower mounting point for the brake shoes is a fixed pivot point. With a different radius on the drum from machining, the brake shoes do not contact the drum with the full surface area. This can be somewhat corrected by shimming the lower mounting point, but a new drum would be ideal.
I think a rear brake job and a careful bleed will fix your problems. If your rear soft lines are original you should replace those for safety.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Dual masters will help.
Thats how we do it race cars. |
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Perpel
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ok...I need new rear drums. The lt40s sound like a cheap and effective upgrade. I'll look into them.
I do have a Burleymotorsports rear disc brake kit in hand. But the LT40s sound like a better use of money.
Unless anyone has a compelling reason to go with the rear discs, I'm selling the burly kit.
Thanks again,
Richard |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Perpel wrote: |
Ok...I need new rear drums. The lt40s sound like a cheap and effective upgrade. I'll look into them.
I do have a Burleymotorsports rear disc brake kit in hand. But the LT40s sound like a better use of money.
Unless anyone has a compelling reason to go with the rear discs, I'm selling the burly kit.
Thanks again,
Richard |
Certain builds/vans will need rear disc.
It is a trade off.
Again, the SA HD rear drums work well and have an excellent ebrake. |
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Perpel
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi All,
Did A web sweep for the LT40 wheels cylinders:
Ate Part Number: 03.3225-5512.3
At well known web retailers they run 50-60€. In the UK they are 55£. that's about $75 a piece, plus shipping.
Also found a German retailer selling them at 9€ each. My German sucks, so I don't know if this a bulk purchase pries or if they are Chinese parts...? Hers a link:
http://www.kfzteiledienst24.de/aoe44/preisroboter/1.25.099.html
Richard |
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Perpel
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Here are the cheaper LT40s on eBay.UK
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=2...6928184063
Anyone know if these have the internal springs?
Gowesty has a nice write up on the ate version in the oem smaller bore. They say the cheaper reproductions don't have the internal spring to keep the pistons pushed out which and makes for a more responsive brake pedal.
R |
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syncrogreg
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Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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boof1306
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Joined: July 10, 2010
Posts: 304
Location: MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| All the E30 boosters work. When I did mine I was working for a BMW dealer. I tried the part number off several boosters (all different) in etk and they all listed all e30s! I don't know why they change the numbers but I can tell you that I have successfully used an early 318I booster and a late cabrio 325 booster. In the link you supplied it does not show a clevis on the actuator rod which you need to do the mod as per Hermans blog. If you get one from a 6cyl convertable or coupe at the end of production they were still making these for a couple of years after the e36 sedan came out and are likely to be in good condition. Greg |
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syncrogreg
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Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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boof1306
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Joined: July 10, 2010
Posts: 304
Location: MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Right you are got that mixed up, sorry. |
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syncrogreg
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Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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minsk
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Location: pittsburgh
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windnsea
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Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 424
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I did the brake conversion 2 years ago to my '83 1/2 Sunroof Waterboxer with a 2.2 L engine using digijet fuel injection. Also have the larger 16x7.5 wheels with Michelin tires. I used cross drilled calipers with ceramic pads. I retained the stock size master cylinder and rear brake drum setup, but went with the larger BMW brake booster.
This setup is what this thing should have had from the outset!!
Anyway, the larger outer diameter brake booster requires making a constricting 'bend' in the way that the speedometer cable is routed on it's way to the speedo/odometer housing. Hence, there has been some binding with the speedometer needle bouncing around 5 mph (+/-) in the 30 to 45 mph range.
Any suggestions on how to reroute the cable or how to alleviate the bouncing? I've already cleaned and relubed the entire speedometer cable routing!
TIA
Windnsea |
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