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Sliding Door Rollers/Bearings 1985 and Newer, Alternatives
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for a $30 sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Size comparison, VW roller vs residential sliding door roller.....
Exact same diameter, different shape and shallower groove.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for a $30 sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Exciting morning! (Yeah, my life is THAT exciting..... Rolling Eyes )

An alternative to the $5 steel roller....... (I am shooting for a "click"... Whisper, whisper, whisper, "click" sliding door noise)

I just ordered a few off the shelf Delrin U groove bearings. Ordered three of slightly different sizes, will see what fits best.
VERY reasonably priced!

They will be here Tuesday..... Almost makes me not to want the weekend! Almost ... but not quite......

I will update upon their arrival.......

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

And......
I ordered these bearings at 8:52 AM est and I just got notification at 9:09 that they have shipped !

That's better than VanCafe!!!!! I wonder if I get any cookies?........

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

What would really quiet down a slider is if one of those grooved wheels fit the lower guide vertical wheel position with a fat o ring on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

alaskadan wrote:
What would really quiet down a slider is if one of those grooved wheels fit the lower guide vertical wheel position with a fat o ring on it.


Ah grasshopper....... The uber quiet bottom weight bearing roller is winging its way to me as I type! Wink

Scheduled for Tuesday delivery via UPS.

You are on the right track though........ Laughing

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Last edited by djkeev on Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Now that im thinking about it, i wonder how long a cross section of a ten speed inner tube would hold up if it fit over the wheel. I guess even if it only lasted a year one would have a lifetime supply from an inner tube.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

That lower wheel is 30mm at its largest diameter.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=650951

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for a $30 sliding door bearing Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
(I am shooting for a "click"... Whisper, whisper, whisper, "click" sliding door noise)

WANT.

Keep us posted...

Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Isn't the screeching noise because the lower roller scrubs sideways? If thats the case putting rubber on it will just "scrub off".

Would love to quiet it down!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Ya i was thinking about that, you're probably right. But just for the sake of experimenting on my way home today i stopped by a bike shop and asked if he had an old inner tube from a ten speed with skinny tires. Just so happened he did from a swap out . Gave it to me for free. I just cut a 3/4 inch long piece and stretched it over a lower vertical roller on a parts door. Its snug to say the least. The edges roll around and up the sides of the wheel a 1/4 inch or so. Tomorrow im going to put a piece on the door of my van. I will keep you posted.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Isn't the screeching noise because the lower roller scrubs sideways? If thats the case putting rubber on it will just "scrub off".

Would love to quiet it down!


That's an interesting thought ^^

In the Bentley on page 58.13 they say to apply grease to that lower roller run area.
The illustration shows the front area where the door is pulled in tight and the steel roller would be scuffing sideways......

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That area is only exposed to dirt when the door is open (not like the rear guide assembly which live in the weather 24/7 ) but I Really dislike the idea of having exposed grease right there.
Grease is like a dirt magnet and somehow always escapes from where it is put!

But Then again, if my PO had done made some effort (any effort) in maintaining and lubricating the system I Would not have been greeted with this!

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Big thoughts......... Idea

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
That area is only exposed to dirt when the door is open (not like the rear guide assembly which live in the weather 24/7 ) but I Really dislike the idea of having exposed grease right there.
Grease is like a dirt magnet

Big thoughts......... Idea

Dave


Referring to the roller under the floor that scrubs sideways.

What about a waxy grease stick such as "Door Ease Lube Stick". Its like a crayon. Somebody must've tried this. There's lots of other brands crayons, even spray cans.

I wonder if you could wrap it in a rag (maybe a plastic bath scrubbie so it doesn't hold water) and store it "on location" stuffed in the slot.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
but I Really dislike the idea of having exposed grease right there.
Grease is like a dirt magnet


Tell me about it:

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Sick

Sodo wrote:
Referring to the roller under the floor that scrubs sideways.

What about a waxy grease stick such as "Door Ease Lube Stick". Its like a crayon. Somebody must've tried this. There's lots of other brands crayons, even spray cans.


I use Fluid Film on the rear and lower tracks (after getting rid of, in part, the UHMW tape in those places). Works great.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Does Fluid Film quiet the screech?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Does Fluid Film quiet the screech?


It's a waxy anti-rust compound. I would think that it would indeed provide some lubricity to the wheel.

I would strongly advise that you sand and repaint before using it though, it can be a bear to fully remove.
See my build thread about the work involved to clean up those guide tracks!

Also, hold off for a week until my alternative bits arrive on Tuesday and I'm able to assemble my plan..... You may not be troubling with that steel wheeled SCREEEEETCH!!!!!
Minor modifications may be called for, but nothing irreversible.

I'm hoping for amazingly fluid and quiet operation.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Does Fluid Film quiet the screech?


My door never screeched to begin with, so can't answer ^that. Confused No, I take that back; the one time it did screech, heinously I might add, was when the rear UHMW tape shredded and the bearing got stuck on a wad of it. Mad

By adding UHMW tape, I simply wanted to quiet down the metal-on-metal noise, which it did... until the load-bearing bearings, coupled with heat, wrecked the tape (the upper inside track tape is still going strong and in great shape). The Fluid Film is making the door slide like butter, however; it'll be even better once I refurb the tracks (sanding off the tape remnants and painting) and replace the bearings. I don't like dealing with grease, especially, like Dave said, in an area that sees a lot of exposure to dirt, so I got the Fluid Film after reading here that a bunch of folks recommended it.

djkeev wrote:
I would strongly advise that you sand and repaint before using it though, it can be a bear to fully remove.


No, UHMW tape is a royal bitch to remove. Evil or Very Mad Removing Fluid Film is cake-walk in comparison.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

So i pulled off sliding door today for maintinence. Cleaning winter grit and lubing all wheels and bearings. I did put a piece of that inner tube on the lower vertical wheel after cleaning. I know better than to think it would hold up long seeing how that wheel essentially looks like a mini english wheel and the amount of pressure at that point. Wow. It helped incredibly. Smooth and quiet. ( that wheel at least). It didnt scrub off the wheel at all. After about 20 cycles though it started to cut through. Oh well i know what a silent lower roller sounds like for a moment. It was nice. While it was working it became aparent how much noise the rear roller makes. So i looked through my O ring kit and found one with about a 5/32 cross section that fit tightly on the grooved wheel. It helped quite alot. We will see how long it lasts. If nothing else the door is much smoother, cleaner and happier after some good maintinence. Im waitng to see what you come up with Dave, I want a quiet door again.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for the $30 grooved 85 up sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Studying up on non grease lubricants.

It seems that UHMW tape becomes unstable above 230*.

For high temperature needs PTFE tape (Teflon) is the cats meow.

For roller lubrication it seems that a dry lube is called for. Basically PTFE dust delivered in a suspension which evaporates leaving just the dust behind.
Now this dust is rather stable, it does creep but it clings well to various surfaces, steel, plastic and paint (the particular suspension agents can be a problem with some paint).
It is certainly easy enough to reapply as part of a preventative maintenence program.

The PTFE is unaffected by water and will not wash off. You can wipe it off with a rag soaked in mineral spirits..... And I've read WD40!

This is great for the interior tracks and runs of the sliding door assembly...... Not so good for the outside exposed tracks for the PTFE dust is easily BLOWN away!

Be choosy about your Dry Lubricant brand. Many companies add various compounds enhancing various aspects of the PTFE but they also dilute the quantity of PTFE in the product as well.

Hmmmmm.......

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for a $30 sliding door bearing Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
The only issue I thought of is that the bearing is carrying the load a little different.
It's getting a hung on load, rather than a direct down force load.

But, yea, it isn't high speed and doesn't get that much mileage on it.


I must be missing something. I fail to grasp the difference. Force on the wheel then transfer to the bearing.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: $5 fix for a $30 sliding door bearing Reply with quote

chase4food wrote:
Terry Kay wrote:
The only issue I thought of is that the bearing is carrying the load a little different.
It's getting a hung on load, rather than a direct down force load.

But, yea, it isn't high speed and doesn't get that much mileage on it.


I must be missing something. I fail to grasp the difference. Force on the wheel then transfer to the bearing.


You did.

Hang a lever on the end of single bearing run, and then a load on that lever--
Id that a direct straight down loading force?
I think not--really very simple.

Then --take 2 bearings which will carry any load of the same weight, and run them on a track to move the object, in this case a sliding door.
It's a straight down load, no leverage on the end of an arm action, plus two bearings instead of one.

What's the problem with the no comprede' absorption process?
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