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mordeaux
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006
Posts: 249
Location: Mobtown
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 Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Gordy, but that's only useful information if I know the inside diameter of stock alloys and the overall radius at the outside of the caliper in this fitment. I thought perhaps OP could answer that.
I love the application of found parts for this install. It makes rear discs much more approachable for those of us without the inclination to a lot of machining and fabrication. |
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GeeZ12
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009
Posts: 303
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: |
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You need to consider the calipers for the overall fit and not just the rotors. The rotors will easily clear but calipers may rub the inside of the stock steel wheel and could clear with small spacers. I too would like to know about the fit with regard to stock 14" steel rims.
Just my 2¢ |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| How is the E brake clamping force I wonder if it is better with lager rotors. |
It's hard to tell since the system isn't bled yet. However, all indications are good so far. The calipers clamp firmly and it hold the van on my slight driveway. I will report more later.
| Quote: |
| Is this fitment based on larger diameter wheels or would it work with stock 14" alloys? |
No way woul this fit over a 14". It may not even clear a 15".
The rotor dia is 296mm. By contrast, the SC is 265mm and requires 15" wheels.
| Quote: |
| I love the application of found parts for this install. It makes rear discs much more approachable for those of us without the inclination to a lot of machining and fabrication. |
There isn't any less machining in this setup than any other that I have seen. Yes, I avoided machining the hub. However, I had to machine adapters, fabricate extentions for the E-brake, etc, etc...
I do think that the Ford based conversions offer some advantages over the Audi version though. Mainly, better e-brake and slightly cheaper parts. Unless you are really trying to stay all German, I don't see any advantage to Audi parts other than being able to buy a pre-fabbed adapter. |
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GeeZ12
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009
Posts: 303
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I am currently running stock 14" steel rims with 11" rotors and bmw 4 pot calipers with only 1/8" spacer to clear the rim on the front - I guess the only way to know for sure is to try them.
Anyway, good job on your rear brakes! |
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hiram6
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Beautiful South
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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I'm in the middle of a very similar conversion, but I'm using the rear calipers and rotors from a Taurus. Adapter purchased from a fellow Sambanista, rotors were new from a FLAPS (cheap), and calipers from a pic'n'pull (also cheap)
I'm trying to find a source locally to have my flex hoses custom made, or find the right one off-the-shelf. Supposedly rubber hoses from a 2000 Cadillac Eldorado are a good fit.
Buildyourown, how did you go abut extending the e-brake cables? That's my next challenge.
For those of you hesitant to machine the rear hub, here's an idea/offer. I bought a pair of hubs and had them machined BEFORE I pulled my old hubs, so no downtime waiting for machining. "New" machined hubs are now in place, which means I've got a pair of unmolested hubs sitting in my garage.
We could start a "loaner" program for anyone doing a rear conversion that needs hub work. I'll send you my hubs so you can have them machined, when you finish your conversion, you offer up your unmolested hubs to the next guy, and so forth. Honor system and all. Each new borrower just pays for shipping, and agrees to pass on the karma when your conversion is complete.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| hiram6 wrote: |
I'm trying to find a source locally to have my flex hoses custom made, or find the right one off-the-shelf. Supposedly rubber hoses from a 2000 Cadillac Eldorado are a good fit.
Buildyourown, how did you go abut extending the e-brake cables? That's my next challenge.
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Ask at your better FLAPS about custom brake lines. I was refered by the NAPA counter.
For the e-brake, I extended th housing. The cable is perfect. I took a 3/8" x 6" copper brass nipple. Actual dia is ~.680-690"
I turned a short section to approx .640". Just enough to fit in that plastic bushing. Put the section in a vice and bend it with a cheater bar. Get your conversion done and then crawl under the van and see how the housing terminates in the cross member. It will get real clear. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hiram6,
You did what I am doing. I have doubled up on the parts. My rear hubs got new studs put in (Easy with a BIG brass mallet.) I have front A arms being worked on. I have a pair of rear suspension arms coming. I can NOT have the van sitting around taken apart here as the parking Nazis will want it towed to the junk yard. So I spend to get the parts ahead. I have almost double of everything. Then it is just a matter of a big bang swap with all the parts ready to go. That way I minimize any sort of delay with everything pre-fitted and pre-massaged before the actual operation.
I am weird.......
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| buildyourown wrote: |
The rears:
94-04 Ford Mustang Cobra caliper
94-04 Ford Mustang Cobra 296mm vented rotor.
Custom brake lines.
Home made adapter. |
I like the idea of not machining the hubs.
Obviously you are running longer studs? What size? And can you install the studs while on the van?
Those are Mustang front rotors? or rears?
I just picked up a set of alloy rear calipers off a 01 GTI. I wonder if I can use them with this rotor setup.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| James 93SLC wrote: |
| buildyourown wrote: |
The rears:
94-04 Ford Mustang Cobra caliper
94-04 Ford Mustang Cobra 296mm vented rotor.
Custom brake lines.
Home made adapter. |
I like the idea of not machining the hubs.
Obviously you are running longer studs? What size? And can you install the studs while on the van?
Those are Mustang front rotors? or rears?
I just picked up a set of alloy rear calipers off a 01 GTI. I wonder if I can use them with this rotor setup. |
Mustang rear rotor. 18mm thick IIRC.
74mm long studs, again IIRC. This is with a 16mm spacer behind my rotor for my ET45 MBZ wheels.
Caliper and rotor compatibility is generally only governed by rotor thickness. ie, a 18mm rotor needs a caliper that can clear it. |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| mordeaux wrote: |
Thanks, Gordy, but that's only useful information if I know the inside diameter of stock alloys and the overall radius at the outside of the caliper in this fitment. I thought perhaps OP could answer that.
I love the application of found parts for this install. It makes rear discs much more approachable for those of us without the inclination to a lot of machining and fabrication. |
ya my boss just walked in when I was typing that.
If you are enquiring about fitting to 14" wheels, you must have some?
I don't have 14" wheels, I have 17s. You'll have to measure yours.
The Mustang GT has 10.xx rotors, they might fit 14s.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I picked up a Cobra rotor at the FLAPS just now to check out the fit --- C$40 ,
looks pretty good on price, I am used to paying a lot more.
If you don't mind a slightly smaller solid rotor the GTs are probably cheaper.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| buildyourown wrote: |
| 74mm long studs, again IIRC. This is with a 16mm spacer behind my rotor for my ET45 MBZ wheels. |
Your ET will then be 46 - 16 - disc thickness = much less than 30mm?????
I too have ET46 MB wheels from an 2000 S500 and are 16x7.5 with 215/65-16 tires.
Do you really need to stick out that far for a reason?
| James 93SLC wrote: |
| I just picked up a set of alloy rear calipers off a 01 GTI. I wonder if I can use them with this rotor setup |
| buildyourown wrote: |
| Caliper and rotor compatibility is generally only governed by rotor thickness. ie, a 18mm rotor needs a caliper that can clear it. |
http://www.brembo.com/ENG/catalogo_BRECO/2008/index.html
The above URL indicates that the 01 VW rear rotor is a solid disc of 9mm thichness and a diameter of 239mm. I do not think those VW calipers will mesh with the Ford rotors.
| buildyourown wrote: |
| vented rotors |
Are rear rotors that stressed that they need to be so thick?????
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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rotor thickness is typically an issue of ensuring adequate heat capacity
brakes work by changing the energy from the vehicle's forward motion into heat |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| r39o wrote: |
| buildyourown wrote: |
| vented rotors |
Are rear rotors that stressed that they need to be so thick????? |
looks impressive and only $40, I'd check out the solid, slightly smaller (10 7/ units, I think they are from the GT.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| r39o wrote: |
[Your ET will then be 46 - 16 - disc thickness = much less than 30mm?????
I too have ET46 MB wheels from an 2000 S500 and are 16x7.5 with 215/65-16 tires.
Do you really need to stick out that far for a reason? |
We have the same wheels. I needed that much spacer to allow for some thickness to the adapter. Yes, the ET is probably around 25. This is on the rear only and it clears the sliding door. I have 205 tires but I bet a 215 would clear.
| buildyourown wrote: |
Are rear rotors that stressed that they need to be so thick????? |
They are so thick because they are vented. Probably unnecessary, but my main issues with the stock system was brake fade. ie, heat. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| 240Gordy wrote: |
| r39o wrote: |
| buildyourown wrote: |
| vented rotors |
Are rear rotors that stressed that they need to be so thick????? |
looks impressive and only $40, I'd check out the solid, slightly smaller (10 7/ units, I think they are from the GT. |
I can't access any dimensions for those Ford rotors. Where do I get them?
What part number are they?
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| buildyourown wrote: |
| r39o wrote: |
[Your ET will then be 46 - 16 - disc thickness = much less than 30mm?????
I too have ET46 MB wheels from an 2000 S500 and are 16x7.5 with 215/65-16 tires.
Do you really need to stick out that far for a reason? |
We have the same wheels. I needed that much spacer to allow for some thickness to the adapter. Yes, the ET is probably around 25. This is on the rear only and it clears the sliding door. I have 205 tires but I bet a 215 would clear. |
Let me understand. Without the 16mm spacer the caliper adapter would not be thick enough. That the idea?
| buildyourown wrote: |
| r39o wrote: |
Are rear rotors that stressed that they need to be so thick????? |
They are so thick because they are vented. Probably unnecessary, but my main issues with the stock system was brake fade. ie, heat. |
I assume you are referring to before your big brake conversion in the front. I worry about brake bias, too as those rotors approach the size of the front, but I really don't know much about it all. Currently I am leaving the drums in the back. When I get my spare trailing arms to refurbish and trim for better fit, I can bench test all sorts of combinations with out taking the van off the road.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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THESE ARE 10 33/64, DRILLED AND VENTED us$69
I think stock are solid and cheaper these are the fancy aftermarket units.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Roto-tech/822/EP-54017-R/10002/-1?parentProductId=757922
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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at autopartswarehouse.com
solid $40US
1994-2004 Ford Mustang - EBC Rear Brake Disc Ultimax - OE comparable
Part Number: E35UPR7023Manufacturer Number: UPR7023
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: My big brake upgrade |
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| r39o wrote: |
I can't access any dimensions for those Ford rotors. Where do I get them?
What part number are they? |
Rockauto.com lists dimensions for most parts. It's tedious. Sit down with a beer and take notes.
| Quote: |
| Let me understand. Without the 16mm spacer the caliper adapter would not be thick enough. That the idea? |
With the rotor mounted directly on the hub, the inner most face of the rotor would be behind the mounting face of the adapter. So, yeah, not thick enough. You could make a fancy stepper adapter, but it would be a complex part.
| Quote: |
| I assume you are referring to before your big brake conversion in the front. I worry about brake bias, too as those rotors approach the size of the front, but I really don't know much about it all. |
I thought about bias. Loogy's Ford conversion with 332mm rotors all around help ease my fears. I went as big as I could in the front. I won't know until I drive it. Nothing is set in stone. I could have the drums reinstalled quite easily. (or turn down the rotors, or buy an aftermarket bias valve, etc...)[/quote] |
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