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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: Cool.... |
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| Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point..... |
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1621
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2006
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| dredward wrote: |
| Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point..... |
Just to be clear, the thermo switch controls flow of oil to the oil cooler, and is entirely separate from the water cooling system. This allows the engine to warm up quickly, and does not allow the oil cooler to operate until the engine oil has reached normal operating temps. I would not swap to a lower temp thermostat in the water cooling system.
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'85 Westy |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| 1621 wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point..... |
Just to be clear, the thermo switch controls flow of oil to the oil cooler, and is entirely separate from the water cooling system. This allows the engine to warm up quickly, and does not allow the oil cooler to operate until the engine oil has reached normal operating temps. I would not swap to a lower temp thermostat in the water cooling system. |
Honestly a good friend and mentor tech told me i should as he believed these motors run a tad on the warm side. I didn't do cause i didn't see a pressing need to. However if my thermostat fails i will replace with a lower tem therm stat. It's not going to hurt anything. I don't see how operateing at a lower coolant temp will hurt anything....
Now correct me if i am wrong but doesn't factory oil cooler use coolant to control engine oil temps?
Last edited by dredward on Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VWhead
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Joined: September 27, 2009
Posts: 337
Location: Pacific Grove,CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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dredward wrote:
Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point.....
Just to be clear, the thermo switch controls flow of oil to the oil cooler, and is entirely separate from the water cooling system. This allows the engine to warm up quickly, and does not allow the oil cooler to operate until the engine oil has reached normal operating temps. I would not swap to a lower temp thermostat in the water cooling system. |
These motors were built with stock engine oil coolers that are cooled by coolant.I really think it's overkill to put a external engine oil cooler on.VW engineers didn't have any problem with it.
As for installing your 1.8T with diesel mounts a better solution would be to run it upright @15 degrees using Kennedy Engineering flywheel and adapter plate.So what if you gain an inch and a half of deck height.Like Dredward says you can make up the difference with memory foam.And yes I'm fortunate to have a Single Cab that already has plenty of clearance.By the way I'm in the process of swapping another 1.8T into an 85' 7-passenger 2WD van and that will also receive a raised deck lid like Dredward and Beetsport.
After are recent success with our 1.8T Syncro conversion and the testing we have been doing with it off road my company FatGerman is in the process of fabricating 1.8T engine carrier bars for Syncro and 2WD Vanagons.So now,you do it yourselfers can do it at home.
_________________
81' Single Cab Syncro 1.8T GMW
88' 2wd Westy 1.8T GMW
www.gmwerks.com
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1621
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2006
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| VWhead wrote: |
These motors were built with stock engine oil coolers that are cooled by coolant.I really think it's overkill to put a external engine oil cooler on.VW engineers didn't have any problem with it. |
Very true, I simply feel better keeping the oil temps within a tighter range. Another factor I took into consideration is my Westy is a full 2000lbs heavier than the vehicle it came from (NB ~3000lbs - the GTI is roughly the same). A recent trip to a scale had my Westy topping out at 5000 lbs without passengers. With a camping load, my family of five, and our St. Bernard we're easily approaching 6000lbs. We usually spend summers traveling back and forth over the Rockies, Tetons and Beartooths and I enjoy the confidence of keeping my temps down and oil pressure up.
I'm not suggesting all 1.8T converts add an auxiliary oil cooler, the stock VW heat exchanger may be just the ticket for the average ride.
_________________
'85 Westy |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| 1621 wrote: |
| VWhead wrote: |
These motors were built with stock engine oil coolers that are cooled by coolant.I really think it's overkill to put a external engine oil cooler on.VW engineers didn't have any problem with it. |
Very true, I simply feel better keeping the oil temps within a tighter range. Another factor I took into consideration is my Westy is a full 2000lbs heavier than the vehicle it came from (NB ~3000lbs - the GTI is roughly the same). A recent trip to a scale had my Westy topping out at 5000 lbs without passengers. With a camping load, my family of five, and our St. Bernard we're easily approaching 6000lbs. We usually spend summers traveling back and forth over the Rockies, Tetons and Beartooths and I enjoy the confidence of keeping my temps down and oil pressure up.
I'm not suggesting all 1.8T converts add an auxiliary oil cooler, the stock VW heat exchanger may be just the ticket for the average ride. |
While it doesn't hurt to have an external oil cooler, I figured why bother. As Paul mentioned i've never had an issue with the factory coolant cooled oil cooler with the 10+ cars i've had that used them or with customer cars.... However you gota do what makes "YOU" feel comfortable.... |
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tozovr
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Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| dredward wrote: |
| 1621 wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point..... |
Just to be clear, the thermo switch controls flow of oil to the oil cooler, and is entirely separate from the water cooling system. This allows the engine to warm up quickly, and does not allow the oil cooler to operate until the engine oil has reached normal operating temps. I would not swap to a lower temp thermostat in the water cooling system. |
Honestly a good friend and mentor tech told me i should as he believed these motors run a tad on the warm side. I didn't do cause i didn't see a pressing need to. However of my thermostat fails i will replace with a lower tem therm stat. It's not going to hurt anything. I don't see how operateing at a lower coolant temp will hurt anything....
Now correct me if i am wrong but doesn't factory oil cooler use coolant to control engine oil temps? |
Are you reprogramming the ECU to go to closed loop at the lower temp? Otherwise the ECU will just keep tossing fuel at the motor thinking it needs to be warmed up. then you wash the cylinders down with fuel, diluting the oil and causing premature wear.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| 1621 wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point..... |
Just to be clear, the thermo switch controls flow of oil to the oil cooler, and is entirely separate from the water cooling system. This allows the engine to warm up quickly, and does not allow the oil cooler to operate until the engine oil has reached normal operating temps. I would not swap to a lower temp thermostat in the water cooling system. |
Honestly a good friend and mentor tech told me i should as he believed these motors run a tad on the warm side. I didn't do cause i didn't see a pressing need to. However of my thermostat fails i will replace with a lower tem therm stat. It's not going to hurt anything. I don't see how operateing at a lower coolant temp will hurt anything....
Now correct me if i am wrong but doesn't factory oil cooler use coolant to control engine oil temps? |
Are you reprogramming the ECU to go to closed loop at the lower temp? Otherwise the ECU will just keep tossing fuel at the motor thinking it needs to be warmed up. then you wash the cylinders down with fuel, diluting the oil and causing premature wear. |
I haven't put in a lower temp thermostat. I mentioned if and or when mine fails i'd run one......While i am not the formost expert. I am sure if the oxysensors read too much fuel they will dial it back via ecu. Simply makeing the engine run a lil cooler isn't going to wash your cyclinders out with a modern fuel injected car. I don't think the ecu will need to be reprogramed for that....
Last edited by dredward on Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| dredward wrote: |
| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| 1621 wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| Thats good to know 1621....I am gona run with the stock oil cooler, so far so good. I will likely go with a lower temp thermostat though at some point..... |
Just to be clear, the thermo switch controls flow of oil to the oil cooler, and is entirely separate from the water cooling system. This allows the engine to warm up quickly, and does not allow the oil cooler to operate until the engine oil has reached normal operating temps. I would not swap to a lower temp thermostat in the water cooling system. |
Honestly a good friend and mentor tech told me i should as he believed these motors run a tad on the warm side. I didn't do cause i didn't see a pressing need to. However of my thermostat fails i will replace with a lower tem therm stat. It's not going to hurt anything. I don't see how operateing at a lower coolant temp will hurt anything....
Now correct me if i am wrong but doesn't factory oil cooler use coolant to control engine oil temps? |
Are you reprogramming the ECU to go to closed loop at the lower temp? Otherwise the ECU will just keep tossing fuel at the motor thinking it needs to be warmed up. then you wash the cylinders down with fuel, diluting the oil and causing premature wear. |
I haven't put in a lower temp thermostat. I mentioned if and or when mine fails i'd run one...... |
AEB right? Likely be really simple to get an ECU flash either way, AEB or AUG. I have an A4 1.8T sitting on the other side of my shop right now...105k on it runs great. If I wasn't so smitten with my TD, I'd be out taking measurements right now LOL.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: cheers |
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| My motor is an awp, i think a 2003-2004. You know If i'd started as a diesel i'd of still went with the 1.8t. In Cali thats the # one loop hole to smog. |
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| dredward wrote: |
I haven't put in a lower temp thermostat. I mentioned if and or when mine fails i'd run one......While i am not the formost expert. I am sure if the oxysensors read too much fuel they will dial it back via ecu. Simply makeing the engine run a lil cooler isn't going to wash your cyclinders out with a modern fuel injected car. I don't think the ecu will need to be reprogramed for that.... |
I've seen it happen on quite a few cars. It only needs to be low the threshold of the ECU going into closed loop. If it stays in open loop it will run pig rich. You won't wash the cylinders down in a week, but I've seen damage done on cars in less than a year.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
I haven't put in a lower temp thermostat. I mentioned if and or when mine fails i'd run one......While i am not the formost expert. I am sure if the oxysensors read too much fuel they will dial it back via ecu. Simply makeing the engine run a lil cooler isn't going to wash your cyclinders out with a modern fuel injected car. I don't think the ecu will need to be reprogramed for that.... |
I've seen it happen on quite a few cars. It only needs to be low the threshold of the ECU going into closed loop. If it stays in open loop it will run pig rich. You won't wash the cylinders down in a week, but I've seen damage done on cars in less than a year. |
Unless it's enough to throw a check enigne light, i am not worried. Also what cars(yr, make, and model) have you dealt with where this is an issue? |
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| dredward wrote: |
| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
I haven't put in a lower temp thermostat. I mentioned if and or when mine fails i'd run one......While i am not the formost expert. I am sure if the oxysensors read too much fuel they will dial it back via ecu. Simply makeing the engine run a lil cooler isn't going to wash your cyclinders out with a modern fuel injected car. I don't think the ecu will need to be reprogramed for that.... |
I've seen it happen on quite a few cars. It only needs to be low the threshold of the ECU going into closed loop. If it stays in open loop it will run pig rich. You won't wash the cylinders down in a week, but I've seen damage done on cars in less than a year. |
Unless it's enough to throw a check enigne light, i am not worried. Also what cars(yr, make, and model) have you dealt with where this is an issue? |
Two of them were Ford SHO's (one an '89 and one a '95). The cooling system in them just worked very well and never kicked any code (obviously OBDI). They ran very well, but very rich. The other was an OBDII MKIII VR6 Jetta. Both SHO's had very bad oil analysis. The SHO V6 was built by yamaha and was an amazing piece of work...the issue was widespread on Gen 1 and 2 SHO's in general, but the '89 and '95 were my own and it's what I had first hand experience with. The MKIII VR was mine as well, but we caught it early. The prev owner had literally Just installed the T-stat 3 weeks before I bought it. I found the receipt and swapped to an OE unit. The oil analysis before and after was indicative of the same thing both SHO's showed, without the severity. An interesting point was that I was running a C2 Motorsports Race File EPROM in the Jetta. That must be the reason why it never kicked a CEL.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
I haven't put in a lower temp thermostat. I mentioned if and or when mine fails i'd run one......While i am not the formost expert. I am sure if the oxysensors read too much fuel they will dial it back via ecu. Simply makeing the engine run a lil cooler isn't going to wash your cyclinders out with a modern fuel injected car. I don't think the ecu will need to be reprogramed for that.... |
I've seen it happen on quite a few cars. It only needs to be low the threshold of the ECU going into closed loop. If it stays in open loop it will run pig rich. You won't wash the cylinders down in a week, but I've seen damage done on cars in less than a year. |
Unless it's enough to throw a check enigne light, i am not worried. Also what cars(yr, make, and model) have you dealt with where this is an issue? |
Two of them were Ford SHO's (one an '89 and one a '95). The cooling system in them just worked very well and never kicked any code (obviously OBDI). They ran very well, but very rich. The other was an OBDII MKIII VR6 Jetta. Both SHO's had very bad oil analysis. The SHO V6 was built by yamaha and was an amazing piece of work...the issue was widespread on Gen 1 and 2 SHO's in general, but the '89 and '95 were my own and it's what I had first hand experience with. The MKIII VR was mine as well, but we caught it early. The prev owner had literally Just installed the T-stat 3 weeks before I bought it. I found the receipt and swapped to an OE unit. The oil analysis before and after was indicative of the same thing both SHO's showed, without the severity. An interesting point was that I was running a C2 Motorsports Race File EPROM in the Jetta. That must be the reason why it never kicked a CEL. |
Thats good to know. I haven't put one in so for me it's a moot point. I did figure why not if the one in my van failed however. On a side note there is a guy in Santa Cruz with a Ford SHO powered syncro.......He said the only prob with that swap in a van is he keeps snaping cv's/axles....I have to asusme he meant the cv's given i don't think a sho motor has enough pwr to snap the shaft..... |
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| dredward wrote: |
Thats good to know. I haven't put one in so for me it's a moot point. I did figure why not if the one in my van failed however. On a side note there is a guy in Santa Cruz with a Ford SHO powered syncro.......He said the only prob with that swap in a van is he keeps snaping cv's/axles....I have to asusme he meant the cv's given i don't think a sho motor has enough pwr to snap the shaft..... |
OK...I need to stop reading...I have a Yamaha SHO motor on a stand in my shop...sitting....staring...
Any pics of that beast? The Yamaha SHO V6 is a 3.0 DOHC that put out 225hp in stock form. not a monster, but potent...insane for 1989.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Cool.... |
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| tozovr wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
Thats good to know. I haven't put one in so for me it's a moot point. I did figure why not if the one in my van failed however. On a side note there is a guy in Santa Cruz with a Ford SHO powered syncro.......He said the only prob with that swap in a van is he keeps snaping cv's/axles....I have to asusme he meant the cv's given i don't think a sho motor has enough pwr to snap the shaft..... |
OK...I need to stop reading...I have a Yamaha SHO motor on a stand in my shop...sitting....staring...
Any pics of that beast? The Yamaha SHO V6 is a 3.0 DOHC that put out 225hp in stock form. not a monster, but potent...insane for 1989. |
He showed me some pics from a cam. If i run into him again I'll tell him to e-mail em to me. |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I bought my current van with the full intention of installing a TDI engine from the very outset. I love diesels, and would very much prefer my fleet to operate on that oily tincture. Sadly, it appears as if I've stepped away from the koolaid ever so much...
My '94 100CSQ (174k) has a fair amount of body damage, and is in need of a heater core. After all, I have two of these exact same cars, so the decision isn't all that hard. After much analysis, I've decided to part the old gal and install the AAH V6 into my Bluestar. These are a very robust and reliable engine, but I'm not entirely enthused, as I despise "split-head" designs, and of course it's not diesel. Other than that, I'm excited to take on the challenge of such a transplant. Obviously the primary advantage is that I have a complete donor from which to draw upon, and it's a known quantity. I have a number of specialty tools for these things, and the experience to support their maintenance. My preference is to also convert the transmission over to automatic, but it doesn't appear that Kennedy makes Audi adapter plates, so I'm not sure how to proceed with that concept. If I can't locate something like that, I'll try to find an SA bellhousing for my current manual trans.
I plan on torching out the frame rails, and using those as a guide to inform the placement of the engine mounting arms, which should in turn bolt to the T3 frame rails. The Audi C4 chassis has a nifty cross-bar that's used to support the front engine mount, that I may be able to use, as well.
I'll take some more pics as the stripping process proceeds, and then will start a build thread as things move along. I share this thread's initial curiosity regarding why this option isn't pursued more, so why not see what happens?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Very cool! It will be exciting to see your progress on this one.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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D Clymer
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Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Casey,
I would call KEP and ask them specifically about an adaptor plate and flexplate for the Audi 5 cylinder to 4 bolt traditional VW/Porsche bellhousing. It seems like they should be able to produce one of these.
If not, it wouldn't be that hard to make one up on your own. I'm assuming you are talking about mating the Audi V6 up to the Vanagon automatic and not using the standard Audi 4 speed unit. The actual adaptor plate would be straightforward to make and a flexplate could be made by mating a Wasserboxer flexplate with a fabricated hub drilled with the Audi crank flange bolt circle and the correct offset to allow for the thickness of the adaptor plate.
With the availability of the new 3.27:1 final drive for these automatics, that would be a pretty nice combination.
Just some thoughts.
David |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the encouragement guys. David, yeah my intention is to mate the Audi to a standard VW automatic. I'll know more when I pull the engine and take a look at the flex plate. Ideally, I wish I could use the Audi 4spd auto trans with a set of reversing gears, but that's not in the cards for now.
I'm hoping the engine height roughly matches the swap in the following pic. I may need to modify the plastic airbox slightly so that it doesn't rise so high. I'm pretty sure it will interfere with the firewall, so that's also a consideration.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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