At Wits End. No A/C = Sell the Westy

[WLD*WSTY]

For those wishing to retrofit a front mounted A/C, try the excellent writeup by Blake Heinlein here:

http://sites.google.com/site/blakeheinlein2/vanagon-airconditioning

It looks like it's a pretty straight forward job. I'll be following in his footsteps soon. Blake is pretty good about answering questions.

Larry H.

[scubabrian]

[fixedgear]

Seems like the stock system suffers from a double fault, inadequate cooling and poor distibution. Just a thought with respect to #2-What would happen if the cold air could be routed to the fresh air vents on the top side (above the sliding door), could that help distribute the cool air. Or if it was routed there, and then the vent was removed and lever #4 kept shut, would you get the cooled air to the front air box? Flame suite prepped and ready to go!
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1986 Wolfsburg Weekender

[populuxe59]

This is not speculation or a dream system, this is the quick and dirty way to get it working.
If you want to keep this simple and cheap, buy a r-134 conversion kit for about $25. Get an extra can of 134. Do the change out which involves piggy backing the new 134 fitting over the old r12 fitting. Add a can of refrigerant. If none is leaking out yet add the other can as well. Keep these cans in a warm water bath to make the 134 keep flowing as you add. If you follow the instructions and the system is workable, the pressure switch will allow the compressor to start up. Attach the r-134 sticker to the vehicle.
Next summer you may have to add another 24 oz can.
Now, you may find your kids freezing in the back and it's warm in the front. Add a few clip-on 12v fans. The factory Vanagon system takes at least 20 minutes to really start cooling the large interior so it is not good for short commutes.

[Terry Kay]

What you fail to understand is the R-12A operates at a much lower pressure than the 134-A and won't overload worn out antique hoses & fiitings--not to mention the compressor.

Plus it blows much colder with less operating pressure on the half worn out compressor.

You mentioned nothing about an evacuation process which will allow your system to operate 100% more efficiantly --regardless of what type of refrigerant you wind up using.

R-134-A is in no way shape of form the best bang for your buck in an orginal R-12 system.

You'll actually get less outa the eveporator vents than the system once did when it was new and had R-12 in it.

The key here is to drop the evapotaor cabinet, clean all of the injested dirt the coils have been eating over the years so you can get a decent air flow through them, get all of the busted up black foam rubber the factory wrapped the evaporator coils with blown out or vacuumed outa the cabinet, Do clean out the AC high side & low side hoses,& condensor with some air dryer alcohol, suck the sysyem down and leave it sit overnight to check for porous hoses, or poor seals at the fitings.

Once you have all of this done, then load up the system with R-12-A and enjoy ultra cold air blowing outa your stock AC vents.

I think that the quadruple relay back up for the motor is overkill, and un necessary.

If you don't have the refrigerant system operating properly, you can blow air through the evaporator till the cows come home, and your not going to get 36--to 38 degree air coming out of the AC vents.

Mine all do--and not one of the systems have any back up relays on the AC motor's.
The stock blower system is more than adequate--

As far as the AC unit being able to cool down the Van in a short blast to grocery store 3 blocks away--
No AC set up, in any vehicle will be able to overcome 100 degree heat in that short of a run.

It's physically impossible.

Don't expect anything close to that.

Maybe if you were running an old style Frigidare compressor, with a Mark IV under dash unit, with R-12 in the system you might knock ff a couple of degree's in a block or two--
But sadly , there isn't any as efficiant AC set ups being manufactured to work as the older set up's once did.

You all, have newer style , lower capacity systems in your Vans--make them operate as well as you possibly can.
_________________
T.K.

[wenholzm]

I am looking into a small portable 110 V 5000 BTU AC unit (Danby DPAC5070) to place behind the passanger seat, that I can exaust outside the van through a window and rig a portable 1000 W Honda generator in the luggage rack to run the AC unit. The running amps for the AC are 4.6 A and the generator is rated to 7.5 A. Even if the AC draws 50% more amps at start up, it should still be OK.

For nighttime it is the best, but I wonder if I can also drive down the road like this?

Anybody care to comment?

[campism]

It's been done.

[DAIZEE]

I saw that before it disappeared. UGLY, talk about loud A/C's. Wonder what his neighbors thought! Innovative but desperate!
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[presslab]

I installed a used Behr A/C unit from an early vanagon. Picked it up for a couple hundred, all told it was around $500 to add A/C to my van. New custom hoses, used compressor, new dryer, and new condenser.

It's a good amount of work! But pretty straightforward.

And I'm pretty satisfied. Went through Davis last summer and it was around 105 F. I had the A/C on full but it was comfortable in the van.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti

[aguabonita]

Ok, I'm thinking out loud here so bear with me.

I am thinking that I should:

First. Get this beast into an A/C specialist to have the compressor and lines checked.

Second. Perhaps I should have them put in some new refrigerant and try it out for a bit? Out of curiosity, what type of refrigerant are modern cars using these days?

Third. Drink a beer, cross my fingers, and wait for the prognosis.

I will keep you posted.

Cheers,
Kevin
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'87 Westfalia, GW 2.2, and some other goodies
'90 Volvo 245

[elpedro]

[Terry Kay]

<< I also understand R134 will hasten the demise of your stock compressor because it doesn't lubricate the parts like the old stuff.>>

No, not really.

The R-134 A will contribute to the demise of your antique compressor just becsue of the operating pressure's it requires to operate at half the capacity of the R-12 or R-12A.

The refrigerant has zero lubricating cababilities.

It's the refrigerant oil in the system that keeps the compressor spinning free.
_________________
T.K.

[morymob]

[elpedro]

[morymob]

Read the 'sticky' section and u will see this topic has been thrashed about, up-down,sideways,front to back, and probably all questions covered in depth.

[Terry Kay]

<<Thanks for the clarification TK... so does this mean the frigrerant oil is the same for both R12 and R134? I'm studying up for "what happens next" when my luck with R12 runs out.>>

Mineral oil for R-12.
Ester or Pag oil for 134-A

And here is where the R 12A comes in--it's compatible with any of the AC lubricating oils, and blows colder than the 134.

Mory.

Your right.
Hit the sticky section.

So if in fact everybody did that --you realize there would be no conversation here at all--no posts, just a seach session for all in the "Sticky's"

How nice.

Head gasket leaks are forever, same with tires,lost electrical power, what battery to use, propane & Dometic problems, suspension upgrades, "How am I ever going to get my faded fiberglass pop top to shine again",bedliner, wheels, upper A arm bushings, shocks, Mexican Paint Jobs --Yada, Yada, Yada.

Don't post about anything--just read the sticky's--because it's all been covered in the deepest of depth in a prior life.

Good Call.
_________________
T.K.

[r39o]

[Terry Kay]

<<What I am curious about is: Why the shift to R-12A from Redtek, aside from the issues of getting to the state you need it in>>

Batman--
The solution to this riddle is--
R-12-A is / can be RedTek, and few other derivitives other than 134-A.

It's compatible with with the R-12,plus the mineral oil, and cools as good as if not better than the R-12 with no consequence.
No penelties, no error's.

I've got some literature from a Red Tek distributor, and it's marketed as R-12-A.

12-A would also be correct for an R-12 Alternative.
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T.K.