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CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1037 Location: Calgary, AB
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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SurfaceRust wrote: |
I wonder what engine it has if it cost 14K |
I think the Go Westy 2.7 would get to that price by the time you buy the mandatory engine management system. But I also think it would be mentioned in the ad if it was something that radical.
It could be that it's a stock 2.1, and if you're paying someone to do all the work at $100 or $150 an hour including cooling system, fuel system, etc, the dollars add up pretty quick. But it's all speculation at this point because the description is so short on info.
Whatever work was done to equal $14,000 should probably be elaborated a little further on when you're asking 3x market value for a van. If you really think you have something that amazing and special, you need to go the extra mile to convince potential buyers. A vehicle in that price range should have a 5000 word write-up to convince me.
I'm sorry you paid a lot of money to build your van, but there are very few times when the money spent is equal to the money you'll get out of it. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22645 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Just link your post to their feedback forum entry so that the wankers get their due _________________ .ssS! |
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CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1037 Location: Calgary, AB
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Abscate wrote: |
Just link your post to their feedback forum entry so that the wankers get their due |
I can see both sides. I mean, were you happy with the price you sold it to him for? If he thinks he can make some money selling it again (although I think he’s a bit overpriced), where’s the harm in that? It is a business after all. Van Cafe buys door seals for ‘X’ price, and resells them for a profit. Is that flipping? Should the window seal manufacture slag Van Cafe in their feedback?
How long after someone buys something can they resell it without being a flipper? A month? A year? Are they only a flipper if they sell for a higher price than they bought it for? What if they did some repairs / improvements? Can they profit from that? What about a guy who bought a split bus in 1990 for $100, and never did a thing to it? Does he have to sell it now for $100, or is it ok for him to list it for $10,000 because that’s the market for it now?
That being said, if this guy hammered you down on the price with a sob story about a father/son project, or some other BS excuse, then it is a greasy move and he should be called out for it.
But ultimately, I think once you’ve sold something, the new owner is free to do whatever they want with it.
I’m not trying to pick an argument here. It’s just that I’ve never seen any consensus on this forum or any other as to what constitutes a “flipper”. |
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oasis Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2002 Posts: 2168
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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_________________ Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI |
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4087 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Flippers drive the price up and crowd out buyers looking for a decent deal. While the prospective owner is trying to get their money together or arranging a time to look at the vehicle the flipper will snatch up the deal.
Maybe good if you have a van you're trying to sell but sucks for people looking to get a nice camper.
It's one thing for someone to buy vehicles that need work and bring them back to life for those buyers who don't have the time or skills to rehab.
It's altogether a different story if all the flipper does is buy a decent vehicle and turn right around and sell for thousands more. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1037 Location: Calgary, AB
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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MsTaboo wrote: |
Flippers drive the price up and crowd out buyers looking for a decent deal. While the prospective owner is trying to get their money together or arranging a time to look at the vehicle the flipper will snatch up the deal.
Maybe good if you have a van you're trying to sell but sucks for people looking to get a nice camper.
It's one thing for someone to buy vehicles that need work and bring them back to life for those buyers who don't have the time or skills to rehab.
It's altogether a different story if all the flipper does is buy a decent vehicle and turn right around and sell for thousands more. |
I don’t see how a flipper drives up prices really. If the market value of a van is $20,000 and that’s what it’s being sold for, the flipper can buy it and re-list at $30,000 if they want. That doesn’t change what the market says it’s worth. It’s just another overpriced vehicle that will never sell. By the same argument, then the person listing their van at a good price (below market value) is doing every other seller a disservice by driving median prices down. The outlier really good deals and the overpriced crap get weeded out when you’re looking at the true values.
If a van is truly a really good deal, it’s not just flippers you that will try to snatch it up before you get your money together. There will be a lineup of genuine buyers trying to beat you to it as well. When it comes to good deals, you have to be ready to move fast, or miss out and pay higher prices for the vans with less competition that aren’t quite as good of a deal. Maybe the best way to eliminate the flippers is to contact every seller listing at a good deal, and tell them to raise their price? But that still stops genuine buyers from getting deals so there’s no win there.
I still don’t know how much work you’re required to do to a vehicle before you can sell at a profit without feeling guilty. If you take a non-runner and put a new engine in, that seems reasonable. But what if that non-runner you got cheap turned out to only ended up needing new spark plugs or a coil? Does that mean you shouldn’t profit from it? But if you sell it well below market value now, you’re driving down values for other trying to sell and costing them money. What if you spend hours to clean up a disgusting dirty interior to make it more appealing to other buyers? What if you simply throw down some new floor mats and resell it? I don’t know what the answer is, but I’d be curious to know what’s considered the line between a flip and a resale.
I’ve never considered myself to be a flipper. In fact, I rarely make money off vehicles I sell since I tend to spend a lot of time and money on preventative maintenance items that don’t increase the value to a new owner.
Sometimes, a buyer has a better audience and knowledge to sell things than you might. Recently, I ended up with a bunch of ‘40s Ford parts. That is so far out of my wheelhouse I didn’t know where to begin. I spent a bit of time trying to figure out what was worth what, and in the end, sold the box to a Ford guy. He knows what the parts are, what they’re worth, and how to get them into the right hands. And he should be rewarded for that. Is he a flipper? There might have been $1000 worth of parts in that $50 box. But I got $50 and the stuff was out of my way. I was happy with the deal, and I assume he was too.
So as I said before, if you get the money you wanted out of something, and someone else can make something off it, I don’t know that you can be upset at them. |
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Squidfish Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2004 Posts: 336 Location: 95519
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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To keep it simple, I made some money on this van, albeit not very much, so I do guess I am a "flipper". I had bigger plans to fix up and sell the van for a fair price.... Ultimately, I did not want to deal with an untitled vehicle for sale in CA, I do regret that.
Now, the new seller is grossly misrepresenting the condition of this van. It has a cracked pop top, cracked frame in the pop-top, window and windshield rust, etc; not stored inside and immaculate lol. An 85 CHC in this condition is worth no more than $15k-18k IMO. I guess I'm just tired of seeing people getting taken advantage of in this scene lately. _________________ 1985.5 - Vanagon Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg Edition - LH8U - "Penny"
- 2.6i 5-Cylinder 10v (2004) |
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GG099 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2012 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Anything for sale can be misrepresented of course. One can make a decent living managing that kind of risk. When I was selling my vinyl record albums I graded them fairly, according to strict guidelines. Some buyers began to re-sell my albums for a profit after changing the LP's grade from VG+ to MINT- ("mint minus"), for example. They bought more and more albums from me because I became a gold mine to them.
I've tried to list every little defect that I know about the van and it makes a long list. The seatbelt not retracting automatically for example. Someone asked for pictures of all the seams so I obliged and now the pics scare buyers away because they think every seam has rust. The vehicle is an unmolested, repairs deferred, mechanic's van, but there is something to be said for giving a buyer the upgrade choices, and indeed I sometimes read here "look for an unmolested van". I'm well below GoWesty's opinion-of-value California price. If I lower it much more someone is likely to resell (flip), and not mention that the seat belt doesn't retract automatically. |
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campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4491 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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GG099 wrote: |
...and not mention that the seat belt doesn't retract automatically. |
You think that's bad? My van's BRAKE light on the dash flickers intermittently. _________________ '87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7756 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Full disclosure: my van (sometimes) smells weird.
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Squidfish Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2004 Posts: 336 Location: 95519
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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dhaavers wrote: |
Full disclosure: my van (sometimes) smells weird.
- Dave |
Ours always does. _________________ 1985.5 - Vanagon Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg Edition - LH8U - "Penny"
- 2.6i 5-Cylinder 10v (2004) |
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4087 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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CanStan wrote: |
MsTaboo wrote: |
Flippers drive the price up and crowd out buyers looking for a decent deal. While the prospective owner is trying to get their money together or arranging a time to look at the vehicle the flipper will snatch up the deal.
Maybe good if you have a van you're trying to sell but sucks for people looking to get a nice camper.
It's one thing for someone to buy vehicles that need work and bring them back to life for those buyers who don't have the time or skills to rehab.
It's altogether a different story if all the flipper does is buy a decent vehicle and turn right around and sell for thousands more. |
I don’t see how a flipper drives up prices really. |
Of course they do. Where do you think your profit is coming from? It's one thing to miss out on a good deal to another buyer looking for a nice camper to use and enjoy vs losing out to someone who's just gonna turn around and sell the same vehicle for more money. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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Blakesinclair Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2021 Posts: 60 Location: Santa Ana, California
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3028 Location: MD
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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That's the official new low. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32592 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7466 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Price drop to $50K. It'll probably take a few more to get a sale. Although it is San Diego where there's plenty of stupid-money. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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holdthewind2 Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2015 Posts: 86 Location: The Gorge
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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https://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/d/eugene-vw-vanagon-88-runs-insanely-good/7278837483.html
$18.5K
"The engine has been completely rebuilt, it currently has 154,000 miles on it." I, guess it is just about time for that first oil change after that rebuild then.
" only has overheated on me once" I usually find that there's never any real chance of harm or damage from overheating the first few times
"*AC or Heater does not work* (better, wont bog down your engine)." I like to gain the extra power by removing all ancillary belts to combat the bog monster(see comment about overheating above.) Also the arm workout with the power steering pump belt removed saves me from having to pay for CrossFit.
"The transmission is brand new." I didn't realize that there were brand new transmissions available. _________________ 65 deluxe
89 Syncro Westfalia
90 Tristar Syncro |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3028 Location: MD
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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Both Burley and GW are sold out of their Syncro suspensions. GW's long travel suspension sold out and I was considering getting their basic Fox suspension but then it too sold out!
I would like to upgrade my suspension! I hope they get them in stock before the summer. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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davlance01 Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 224 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Official whine about Vanagon vans and parts for sale |
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holdthewind2 wrote: |
https://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/d/eugene-vw-vanagon-88-runs-insanely-good/7278837483.html
$18.5K
"The engine has been completely rebuilt, it currently has 154,000 miles on it." I, guess it is just about time for that first oil change after that rebuild then.
" only has overheated on me once" I usually find that there's never any real chance of harm or damage from overheating the first few times
"*AC or Heater does not work* (better, wont bog down your engine)." I like to gain the extra power by removing all ancillary belts to combat the bog monster(see comment about overheating above.) Also the arm workout with the power steering pump belt removed saves me from having to pay for CrossFit.
"The transmission is brand new." I didn't realize that there were brand new transmissions available. |
I seen that one.
People have no clue what these vans are worth.
From my experience it doesn't matter if you spend $200 or $20000 on these vans your putting the same money and work into them.
He's about $14.5k too high on that one. _________________ Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast! |
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