1.9 WBX muffler on a 2.1?

[geo_tonz]

I was reading another muffler thread that was just started and it sparked a related question but I didn't want to hijack...

Can you use an OEM replacement muffler for a 1.9L WBX on a 2.1? Any problems mounting or too restrictive?

I ask because I put a whole new system on my '85 a couple years ago and now have bought an '89 as my main runner. It was missing a tail pipe and when I went to replace it I noticed the muffler was rusting through around the flange. The beatings I will have to give it to remove the old tailpipe hardware will likely destroy it. Given that the '85 is a parts van now it chokes me to have to buy a new muffler for the '89 ($220 delivered for a regular OEM style) when there's a perfectly good one on my old van. Plus there are many other "small fixes" on the "new" van calling to my wallet...(it's a Vanagon)...

This is the one I bought from CIP:
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-025-251-053-E
Not sure of the brand, but I remember a lot of Mansk stickers when I pulled the pipes out to assemble.

Thanks in advance.
Tony.
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

[geo_tonz]

Too stupid a question? C'mon, tell me, I can take it!
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

[Jake de Villiers]

Hey Tony, I would go ahead and install the good cat/muffler.

You might lose a few hundred RPM off the top end but who would really notice!
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'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com

[geo_tonz]

[Bman]

I just did this myself.. My Doka has a 2.1 block, with a 1.9 FI sytem, and HAD an aircooled exhaust system. I took off the aircooled exhaust and rusty POS muffler and replaced with a used 2.1 exhaust system, but as I got to the CAT and muffler I found that my used 2.1 muffler could not fit the space without touching the rear body. Not wanting any rattling or heat/rust damage I stole the 1.9 muffler from my Tiico 89 Westy to complete the Doka job.

Hear is what I found: as one goes from the exhaust elbow to the outside pipe and into the CAT the 2.1 piping is 2"; the 1.9 muffler is 1.75" and so conceivably there could be some back pressure. Since I did this job (2 weeks ago) I have been dealing with a chronic low idle that I detailed here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=580610&highlight=

Which NO ONE came to my rescue with ideas.

I have tried "fixing" this idle by unplugging my single wire Oxy sensor to no avail, I also thought of busting out the CAT interior to see if there was a blockage, however, I can see through the used CAT and determined that no blockage was occurring there. Could it be the 2" to 1.75" pipe? I don't know, and I'm not convinced that it is. But something has changed that my computer is running the van too low (rich?). I am starting to wonder, maybe my oxygen sensor has failed.

One of my problems with the 2.1 muffler was that I had some earlier model engine tin that prevented me from using the standard hangers, so I am only using the one rear exhaust pipe attached hanger and found that it holds the 1.9 muffler fine.

Please also explain to me what you mean by loosing RPMs off the top? Although I am sluggish on the idle, when I now drive the rig it is nice and quiet, but also seems to drive smother than before?

My thoughts
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~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[Jake de Villiers]

[geo_tonz]

Cool, thanks Jake and Bman.

Wasn't sure if your 1st comment was more of "go ahead...you'll find out" sarcasm but didn't think it was.

Any comments on mounting? Will the stock 2.1 saddles work?

As long as there's no potential for engine issues long term and it won't neuter the van then I'll go for it. I guess my concern with the stronger back pressure is if I'll start to find/develop weak points up-stream. The pipes look ok but the gaskets between look old and tired. But what's fixing an issue on the Vanagon if I don't find 2 more?
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

[Bman]

Stock saddles? Do you mean the muffler hangers?

If you mean the muffler holders/hangers that attach either to the front exhaust pipe or the mustache bar rubber, then yes they will hold the 1.9 muffler just fine, plus room to spare. I did not find any exceptional rattling of the muffler when I used the 2.1 hangers on the 1.9 muffler. Our do you mean the gaskets? I used a 2.1 gasket kit from VC, larger than the 1.9 intake and so still sealed and didn't provide any additional blockage.

measure your muffler (1.9) intake pipe should be about 1.75" compared to a 2.1 CAT it is only a .25" difference. How much real back pressure are we really talking about?
_________________
~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[geo_tonz]

Yes that's what I meant, thanks.
I'll give it a shot the next time I don't have to lay in a puddle to work on it. I really need to paint the van that's in the garage so I have a dry place to work!
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

[geo_tonz]

Just a follow-up on this.

I got the 1.9 L muffler on without too much drama, but the 2.1L muffler brackets and straps were way too big and wouldn't clamp the muffler in place. I had some scrap aluminium 'c' channel that I had taken off my old boat so I cut a couple pieces to use as spacers. The muffler is being held pretty well but I think the flanges are turned slightly different compared to a 2.1 L muffler. The reason I mention this is that I put a stainless GW Tailpipe on and the only position that would work is pretty much pointed straight down. It looks reasonable as the bent-back portion is very short and it's mostly up behind the rear body work but I suspect the flange on the 2.1 L muffler is probably turn a bit when compared to the 1.9 L so the tailpipe sits more horizontal and shoots more aft, not down. Maybe I'm mistaken and the GW tailpipe is supposed to fit this way, or was welded incorrectly? The muffler also didn't seem to sit quite square until I torqued it down. Now the doughnut connection on the engine-side of the cat is leaking, probably as a result of me coercing it into position (no beating, just tightening the straps).

This is a Mansk muffler from California Import Parts, so others may be different.

All in all, yes it worked and my van is quieter and doesn't seem to run any different, but I would still prefer to have a 2.1 L muffler on it. When the rest of the pipes start to go I'll just get the whole system.
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

[Terry Kay]

The 2.1 is smaller in diameter, is much shorter than the 1.9 and uses 1 hanger & straps, the 2.1 uses 2.

Now--what the biigest issue is that the aftermarket muffler's don't follow the factory sizes.
I know the walker mufflers for one are all smaller in diameter.
I suppose the rest of the not stock replacements follow the same pattern.

If you want to use a 2.1 muffler you need the correct saddles & straps, and the straps are going to have to be a hair shorter.

I make HD last forever muffler straps for this very occasion.
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T.K.

[geo_tonz]

Well in this instance Terry the aftermarket muffler I had bought originally for my 1.9l '85 was smaller in diameter than the rusted-out 2.1l muffler I was replacing. I needed spacers between the muffler and straps to secure the 1.9l muffler in the 2.1l brackets. Otherwise it seems to work fine with the possible exception of the tail pipe possibly being slightly off kilter.
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

[davevickery]

I've used a couple different walker 6 inch mufflers on engine conversions. They are inexpensive and quiet. The earmark 1.9 was excellent. I wonder about the blowing it apart comment. What kind of psi would it take to do that. Seems impossible without being blocked up.