Stronger than stock trans mount for 74

[donmurray]

Need HD transmission mounts for a 74 (Ghia). I believe the standard ones are 3 bolt mounts, and probably the same as 73-74 Beetle. It looks like the online stores only have HD mounts for earlier 2 bolt setups. One of the vendors suggested I convert to use the earlier 2 bolt mount. What's involved in making this converstion? If one of the special braces (Berg?) is an easier solution than a mount conversion, I would like to hear about it. Seeing some stories about the polyurethane mounts breaking, or too noisy for street. If there are some proven, 3 bolt, poly mounts avaiable then would like to know about those also.

This is a street car with a 2110 engine, but no drag race starts or speed shifts. Still, I would like to have some confidence that the trans will stay put and shift OK.
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine

[dirtkeeper]

I have urethane motor mounts , a stock 2 bolt front mount, and i use a nose cone strap..on a baja and has worked fine for years. I wouldn't convert the mount just get a front tranny strap. easy install

[Glenn]

You can convert the rear mounts to the earlier style but the front you can not convert.

Berg HD rear mounts

Berg mid mount

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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[Joel]

i swapped out mine
the late model design is absolutely hopeless
blatantly obvious cost cutting on VWs part thats for sure

its a straight swap if you have the cradel and the mounts

the later one at the top is so much thinner and prone to bending as you can see by my old one, rubber mounts are crap too

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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[vw_hank]

Did the swap on A friends 74 baja, it was A straight swap just got the early type from A parts car went and got some polyurethane bushings and it was all good..

[chiprodriguez]

The later model trans mount set up is far from cost cutting on VW's part. VW has done nothing but improve year after year from the split window era. The late model/super beetle years being the best from the quiet .93 4th gear, long soft torsions and spongy trans mounts giving the car a ride that is smoother than most new cars built today. However, when extra horsepower and built transmissions are added which VW never anticipated, these stock components may come up short. A stock early two bolt nosecone mount or a Berg padded midmount would be much stronger without sacrificing ride or cabin noise/vibration as well as the earlier cradle mount bell house setup.

[Joel]

i can find plenty of examples of cost cutting on late bugs

just look at all the stuff that was metal originally and was made from plastic towards the end like inside door handles and surrounds, window winder handles, hood and decklid handles, rear numberplate light housing, steering column housing etc etc

and late model front tranny mounts, those are just nasty
but i do agree with you though they maintained quality where they could
especially compared with other manufactureres at the time
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[donmurray]

Some helpful stuff coming up here. My Ghia is not on stands right now, so can't look to see what I have. Are the front mount piece and the rear cradle just bolt in, or will some cutting and welding be needed? If bolt in, that sounds like the way to go. Then I can buy some HD or Rhino mounts.

What about the down load stress at the rear of the frame horns? With the above mods, and easy street use can I leave this stock? If some bracing is advisable, then what's the easiest method for a little help at the horns? The Berg traction bar looks like an easy install. Will it clear the A-1 sidewinder type exhaust?
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine

[donmurray]

Looks like limited solutions available for a 74 Ghia. No one is making a bolt in mid mount. Strap kits are available that have a front and rear strap, but I hear opinions from "worthless" to "they are better than nothing".

So, here's the configuration I'm now thinking about.

1. A new stock, 3 bolt, front mount. HD if available. Think Berg has them.

2. Front strap to secure the nose. There are doubts about how effective these straps are, but surely it would help as long as there was some tension maintained on the cushioned top strap. CIP1 also sells a front brace that bolts in under the nose, but not sure it will fit the 74. I've asked CIP1 about that.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26-311-204

3. Convert to the earlier (pre 73) version metal cradle and use early version HD (Rhino?) mounts. CIP1 sells this cradle with a strap, although I don't see how a strap at that point does much to keep the tranny from rotating down in the rear.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D9543

4. Kafer brace for the horns. Bugpack has one. About $160 I think.
http://www.bugpack.com/content.php?id=561
I'm thinking that bracing those rear mount points so they are less prone to bending down will also provide some resistance to lifting at the nose. It will move the rotation point aft which should require more torque to lift the nose. Any opinions on this theory/speculation/conjecture? Think I will avoid the Berg type traction bar under the rear of the engine. Afraid of interferrence with a Sidewinder exhaust, and possibly other pieces.

Then, if we're going that far, may as well take the trans somewhere and get 3rd & 4th gears welded. Anything else I should do to make a 74 transmission street durable?
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine

[Joel]

you should be able to run a berg style mid mount like this

and either leave the stock front mount or remove it all together
thats all most of the guys here with 200hp+ WRX engines use with a kafer brace

ive only got 150hp but with stock early rear cradel and mounts and a stock mount with a 5 bar kafer brace its tight as
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[donmurray]

Joel,

I asked Berg about a bolt in mid mount and they said it was not available for my model. Said there was one that required some welding. I'm a little confused about this, as it looks like the one pictured would fit. Is the nose cone bolt pattern different from 73 on?

So you don't have the pictured mid mount, or anything but a stock mount on the nose?
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine

[Joel]

the nose cone bolt pattern is the same and so are the chassis forks etc, thats why i cant understand why they're saying it wont fit

yep thats right, my earlier rear cradle pictured above that i fitted actually came from an early 60s splitty and i just use OEM german rubber mounts

tried the pretty red poly ones and dont like them

i want to fit a mid mount but i'll probably just make my own
i havent at this stage as my coolant lines run where the tabs weld to the forks but i need to rework that so my swaybar fits as well

i also have one of the aussie made 5 bar kafer braces

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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[Bruce]

[Joel]

actually they're perfectly fine without the front mount

i can show you plenty of bugs where the stock mount has been removed and just a berg style mid mount run, and been fine for years with more than 200hp at the wheels
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[gooser]

[dan macmillan]

[donmurray]

After much forum reading and some vendor feedback:

This is for a 74 Ghia with 2110 engine. Easy on the clutch driving, but do like some hard acceleration in 2nd and up. No big increase in noise or vibration.

1. Good quality standard front mount. $30 est.

2. EMPI 9531 padded front strap kit. Like this strap because it's has a more direct tension load on the top strap and bracket. Some other straps look like they would give more. $55

3. EMPI 9541 cradle and padded strap kit. Uses earlier mounts. The strap should keep some HD mounts together, and snub the transmission up a little more. $60 This cradle is supposed to be a mounting point for the Bugpack Kafer style truss which I may add later.

So far we're at less than $200, and I think there's a good chance that this will be all that needed for me.

The Bugpack truss is a lighter version of a Kafer setup, and if I see signs of too much movement back there, I'll add it for $160.

Don't give me any noise about EMPI quality. All their stuff can't be bad, so let's don't fall victim to pattern thinking and miss out on a resonably priced appropriate solution.
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74 Ghia, with 2110 engine

[vwsteve]

On the newer style, do you even need the cross piece? I am replacing an older style setup but I don't have the cross piece. I could find one but just wondering what the purpose even is.

[Glenn]

Yes, it ties the frame horns together.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare