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amishman
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Location: California
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 Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: How many cranks dry fuel filter to full? |
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Just curious for a VW engine sitting for a few months during winter. Fuel filter is dry. Seems like anytime I let a VW sit for 3 months or so without starting it has a bear of a time starting.
Tell me, with a bone dry fuel filter in engine compartment after fuel pump and before carb, should it within "X" seconds of cranking get full of gas? I have been doing the normal filling the carb with gas and for a minute or two yesterday I got the engine started. Battery was dead so when I yanked the jumper cables from my jumper car, within a few seconds the VW engine stopped so I figured real dead battery.
New battery installed today and all over again I am having a bear starting the engine. Seems a bit starved for fuel. Just wondering if my filter after cranking for a good 15 seconds a number of times should be full of fuel?
Heck, I even removed the filter and pre-filled it with some gas and after the engine runs a 15 seconds or so, it dies, I go back to engine and zip of fuel in fuel filter other than a smidge. I would think it should be full.
I am sure it is time for carb rebuild or replace but she was running nice and smooth when put to rest for winter in December but as I was unable to start up until yesterday, she sat those 3 months or so.
And would I be correct if the fuel filter is not filling with fuel after cranking the engine for a while, that maybe the fuel pump is having issues or can there be other common reasons for lack of fuel at the fuel filter. Hoses are decent condition.
tj
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quartermilecamel
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Is the fuel filter between the fuel pump and carb or gas tank and carb? If your filling a fuel filter thats between the carb and pump, then Id suspect that your also filling the carb when you fill the filter. Does gas come out of the inlet to the pump? If theres gas in the tank then fuel should flow out the hose to the inlet to the pump if taken off. Im wondering if your pump has gone south.
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EverettB 
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling the carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though.
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Clara
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though. |
x2
I count to ten slooooooow - ly and that's about when it fires up.
You could disconnect the fuel line from the carb, and have a friend turn the key. Fuel should come out of the line. Tell the friend to stop.
No fuel?
Is there fuel in the tank? Remove gas cap. Bump side of bus, listen at filler. Do you hear slosh slosh or the sound of silence? If it sloshes there is gas.
Disconnect the fuel line to the pump from the tank. Fuel should gravity feed out. If there is fuel in the tank, but it doesn't come out, either you have a clog in the line or maybe you forgot and left the fuel tap in the off position. Sometimes when I know I won't drive it I turn the tap off and let it run the carb dry to prevent deposits gumming up the carb.
If fuel gravity feeds to the pump, but does not pump out of it, your fuel pump is not working.
Wear nitrile gloves to keep the gas off your hands.
Replace any old cracked fuel line with new 5mm fuel line while you are doing this.
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amishman
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Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I am not sure if this is the best method, but I pulled off the air cleaner at the carb and put in some gas direct in there. I would say a good 1/8 cup each time. After cranking she starts, runs for 15 seconds or so, then putters out of fuel it seems. I see none or very little in the fuel filter so thought that was odd. Kept doing this a few times and called it quits last night as it was getting late and family was a calling.
I will try some carb cleaner soon and see what happens also.
Thanks for the advice, will get my wife to crank here over as I watch. My filter is between the fuel pump and carb. I see a little fuel in it but not much at all. I had filled it up and reconnected to the carb and it all gets sucked in and goes back to about empty.
I have a good 1/4 tank of fuel. It is now 3 months old so will add a couple more gallons anyway. Will see if I get gravity feed as you mention and go from there.
Funny think, is as I was pulling the hose off the carb the whole damned nipple pulled out with the hose. Sucker was on their good.
Am I correct the brass colored nipple on the carb is just a friction fit so there is no galactic goo that holds it on? Just a press into fitting? I know of the wire fix to hold it on and will do that but wondering now that I yanked it off, if just pushing it back on is sufficient to hold it tight.
Thanks
tj
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sub-hatchtim
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: |
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sure sounds like you have a bad pump
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zundapp
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I would not poor gas right down the carb to start it.
Get a can of starting fluid spray. Should start right up and you can give it a little squirt as it starts to die until it runs on it's own.
Easy way to see if you have gas in the carb is to take off the air cleaner and look down the throat of the carb with a little mirror as you give it a quick throttle. Should see a squirt of gas shoot down from the accel pump. No squirt, no gas.
Get rid of that filter between the pump and carb and put one between tank and firewall. You have a filter in your fuel pump if your using an original style pump. It's the big nut on the rear side of the pump (rear is rear) Check it for clogging.
I had the same hard start sitch. Turned out I had a fuel pump going bad.
It would eventually start, but it completely died on me while driving.
Changed it out with a spare and now starts within 10 seconds of cranking after sitting a while.
I never connected the hard start problem to the pump as I thought the pump would either work or not. I now think they can go bad slowly.
Good luck with it! |
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Daddybus
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I turn on the key without cranking the engine and leave it that way for a few seconds, then it starts right up. Oh...I have an electric fuel pump.  |
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guatebus
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Joined: May 12, 2003
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Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| amishman wrote: |
Funny think, is as I was pulling the hose off the carb the whole damned nipple pulled out with the hose. Sucker was on their good.
Am I correct the brass colored nipple on the carb is just a friction fit so there is no galactic goo that holds it on? Just a press into fitting? I know of the wire fix to hold it on and will do that but wondering now that I yanked it off, if just pushing it back on is sufficient to hold it tight.
Thanks
tj |
I'd fix this issue with the carb fitting right away, before it falls out with the engine running.
I believe it's a press fit, but now that it's fallen out you need to take some additional measures before just shoving it back in. According to St. Hoover, you can knurl the fitting with a file to raise up some ridges and then press it back into the carb, securing with green locktite.
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amishman
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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She runs and nicely now. I guess a over-night slumber did us all well. I added 1.5 gallons of fresh fuel to spice things up in the tank and this time let her crank for a good 20 seconds or so. She finally came alive! Let it run for 10 minutes or so.
I need to deal with that carb nipple (love saying that word  ) next. So, get it popped back out (hope it comes out again) and rough slightly up the section that enters the carb with say small file, then apply a tad of green loctite, and hand press it in?
Hand press in sufficient? I take it this green loctite can be had at any FLAPS? Never purchased the stuff before.
tj
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guatebus
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Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| amishman wrote: |
I need to deal with that carb nipple (love saying that word ) next. So, get it popped back out (hope it comes out again) and rough slightly up the section that enters the carb with say small file, then apply a tad of green loctite, and hand press it in?
tj |
You don't really rough up the nipple with the file, you ROLL it under the file and it gets embossed a bit. This increases the OD of the fitting and gives you press-fit action in the carb.
Details:
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/vw-tulz-part-six.html
(scroll down)
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21-window
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Joined: March 23, 2004
Posts: 248
Location: out planting
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling the carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though. |
I'd like to hijack this thread and get in to the downside of starting your bus, car, bike, etc and letting it run for 10 minutes just to run it, but I won't....  |
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EverettB
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| 21-window wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling the carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though. |
I'd like to hijack this thread and get in to the downside of starting your bus, car, bike, etc and letting it run for 10 minutes just to run it, but I won't.... |
It doesn't start and idle for 10 minutes. 
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21-window
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Location: out planting
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ...any amount of time from 30 seconds to 15 minutes is likely not very good for it due to the condensation that is created inside the engine and exhaust system. |
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volksaddict
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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That bung comming out of the carb is one of the big reasons catch on fire! Fix it!
When one of mine is sitting for a long time and has dried up I take a piece of fuel hose that I have a small funnel attached to and connect it to the float bowl breather, that big brass tube in the in the top of the carb that sticks up sideways. Finish my beer, cut off the bottom 1/3 of the can with a pocket knife, and fill it with gas. Pour the gas into the funnel and fill up the float bowl so the engine fires right up and has enough gas in the float bowl to run for a minute. If I'm lazy I skip the funnel and try to pour the gas into the brass tube, gets some in the bowl and most of it down the throat. |
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BarryL
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Your needle was probably stuck in the seat due to molecules of stuff drying at the mating surfaces. Sometimes a little whack with the plastic part of a light screwdriver on the top of the bowl area frees it. |
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ToolBox
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| 21-window wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling the carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though. |
I'd like to hijack this thread and get in to the downside of starting your bus, car, bike, etc and letting it run for 10 minutes just to run it, but I won't.... |
Greg,
Stop with that crazy talk.
You would then need to explain how the proper crank case ventilation system works and why the hoses need to be properly connected. |
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mightymouse
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| ToolBox wrote: |
| 21-window wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling the carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though. |
I'd like to hijack this thread and get in to the downside of starting your bus, car, bike, etc and letting it run for 10 minutes just to run it, but I won't.... |
Greg,
Stop with that crazy talk.
You would then need to explain how the proper crank case ventilation system works and why the hoses need to be properly connected. |
lol. nah all he needs to suggest is, to anyone with cars that sit. #1 put stabilizer in the tank. #2 when you fire it up once or twice a month go and drive it for at least 20 mins and get it all up to operating temp. This will cleanse the oil and dry out the exhaust.
there, better?
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21-window
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Joined: March 23, 2004
Posts: 248
Location: out planting
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mightymouse wrote: |
| ToolBox wrote: |
| 21-window wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I'm not driving my Double Cab right now but I still start it up every couple weeks. After 2/3/4 weeks of sitting, it starts up in about 10 seconds of cranking. I believe it is filling the carb. each time as it runs dry/evaporates after weeks of sitting. There is a filter between the pump and the carb. but it never looks "full". You can see gas in it though. |
I'd like to hijack this thread and get in to the downside of starting your bus, car, bike, etc and letting it run for 10 minutes just to run it, but I won't.... |
Greg,
Stop with that crazy talk.
You would then need to explain how the proper crank case ventilation system works and why the hoses need to be properly connected. |
lol. nah all he needs to suggest is, to anyone with cars that sit. #1 put stabilizer in the tank. #2 when you fire it up once or twice a month go and drive it for at least 20 mins and get it all up to operating temp. This will cleanse the oil and dry out the exhaust.
there, better? |
Yup.  Or don't bother to start it every couple weeks.... |
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mastorna
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: How many cranks dry fuel filter to full? |
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Yesterday I replaced my fuel filter (between pump and carb) since it looked like it’s time was up. The previous fuel filter always looked well topped up with gas and I never seemed to have issues with the pump. I took the bus out for a spin afterwards with the new filter for a good 10min and parked thinking job done. Today, however there is no starting it at all. It wants to turn but I think it’s starved. The fuel filter is barely full after cranking it for 10-20 seconds nonstop. I then separate the fuel pump hose and bottom of the fuel filter to see if it’s getting gas as I turn the engine and it appears it is. I have no clue what to do next. I did the 20 second start and nada. When replacing the filter do I have to prime it (or the carb)?
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