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ohlott
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2007
Posts: 294
Location: san clemente CA
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 Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I just got one of these and LOVE IT!
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83.5 westy 2.2 subi
Last edited by ohlott on Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ohlott wrote: |
I just got one of these and LOVE IT!
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AC, no PS pump (no PS), cream colour....mmmm 83-1984 van. Curve intake tube, classic 2.2L, mmmm, 92-95?
Doctor Watson it is... 
I'm in a good mood, come guys, let's fight like gentleman's, let's keep cool and respectful.
Regards, Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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"To many purist on this planet "
Nope i am not a purist, I've butchered damb near every vw i've owned(except my r32). The V.w. inline four has evolved quite a bit. When the price comes down i am doing the 2.ot fsi......  . |
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silversyncro
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 135
Location: silverton colorado
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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One more vote for the 1.8T from me as well.
I also drive a lifted syncro westy, 6:17 R&P's, big tires, and a huge ski box.
I live at 9300ft in the rockies..and this little engine kicks ass. Tons of torque with out ever needing to get into the revs.
It starts every time... even when it 30 below (no block heater) and I still average a "working" 19 mpg.
I am still driving a stock version, meaning not chipped..so I think I'm pushing around 170 hp & 180 ft/lbs torque..which frankly..is more than enough, and it is un-effected by altitude.
Of course, when you can get up to almost 250 ft/lbs of torque with a $400 chip...why wouldn't you? If a lot is good, more is always better right? 
This is all very different from my first conversion experience, so be sure to do your homework.
Also, be sure you are comparing apples to apples, as power does not come cheap in vanagon land.
You simply cannot compare a 2.1, 2.2, or a zetec with the modern 2.5,tdi, svx, or 1.8t. They are in a whole different class, and their cost will reflect it, especially if your looking to push it over 200 hp.
Cheers! |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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does the Bostig reduce the gnd. clearance?
does it intrude up into the rear storage area?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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funagon
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: SLC, UT
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
| does the Bostig reduce the gnd. clearance? |
Scroll to bottom of this page to see the difference between the old and new bostig kits:
http://www.bostig.com/products/bostig-20/what-is-the-bostig-v20
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| does it intrude up into the rear storage area? |
No, fits under decklid.
_________________
1990 GL 7-passenger
2.2 liter WBX |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: what's your ideal replacement engine? |
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| funagon wrote: |
The title of this post asked what is the "ideal" replacement engine. But there is no ideal. An ideal is something that can never be achieved. The real is always a compromise. So maybe I'm not answering the question in the title, but I think the Bostig Zetec conversion represents the best compromise for someone who wants to do an inexpensive self-installation, and have a very reliable, smooth running, nice upgrade in power.
Bostig is the most cost effective conversion. Any guy with a tool box can install in a weekend. Everything is figured out and prepared for you in advance. Great installation support. After you get it in and running then there's nothing left to do but drive and enjoy.
Other engine options have their advantages but they either cost a lot more money, or they presume that you have the knowledge, skills, and time to fabricate, re-wire, and troubleshoot engine systems. And/or spend countless hours with online forums learning how to make the systems work in your van.
A rebuilt, higher compression WBX is a nice thing to have, but you'll still be relying on 25-year old systems (fuel injection, etc) and peripheral components.
Bostig is plug and play, costs about $5k total and you're done (unless you want to play with a ford supercharger or turbo system, but that's another topic). |
So you say this conversion is the simplest? (I have an even simpler conversion in mind but will keep shut about it as it is not up to par with the general line of current popular conversions.)
You are right, there is no ideal. Ideal means you have a set of requirements that are all optimally met. I am not sure any of the conversions will optimally meet the few (loose) requirements set forth by the OP.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| silversyncro wrote: |
One more vote for the 1.8T from me as well.
I also drive a lifted syncro westy, 6:17 R&P's, big tires, and a huge ski box.
I live at 9300ft in the rockies..and this little engine kicks ass. Tons of torque with out ever needing to get into the revs.
It starts every time... even when it 30 below (no block heater) and I still average a "working" 19 mpg.
I am still driving a stock version, meaning not chipped..so I think I'm pushing around 170 hp & 180 ft/lbs torque..which frankly..is more than enough, and it is un-effected by altitude.
Of course, when you can get up to almost 250 ft/lbs of torque with a $400 chip...why wouldn't you? If a lot is good, more is always better right?
This is all very different from my first conversion experience, so be sure to do your homework.
Also, be sure you are comparing apples to apples, as power does not come cheap in vanagon land.
You simply cannot compare a 2.1, 2.2, or a zetec with the modern 2.5,tdi, svx, or 1.8t. They are in a whole different class, and their cost will reflect it, especially if your looking to push it over 200 hp.
Cheers! |
Get er chipped. You won't regret it  . Even with out the chip the 1.8t is the shizzle. I am soooooo glad i went this route. I can just imagine how this would move a non camper..... |
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boulderdrop
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 481
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Another vote here for the Bostig/Zetec... 1k miles on it and it's great. It's an good project to learn with.. I didn't have any wrench skills and they step you through it... totally invaluable, if you've got the time. Took me about 90h and I suck. |
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funagon
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: SLC, UT
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: what's your ideal replacement engine? |
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| r39o wrote: |
So you say this conversion is the simplest? |
Yes I say so! (And am I really going to add to another "which engine is best" thread on the samba? Ok, why not.)
Well, you already got the point I was trying to make that there is no "absolute" or "ideal" best. It depends on what you want and how you want to get there. I love horsepower so maybe I'd like an SVX, or the 1.8T chipped. But I also really get a kick out of doing things inexpensively, and doing it myself. So maybe I should go to the junkyard and look for a cheap jetta engine and some diesel vanagon parts to mate with the transmission, and learn to weld my own carrier bar and exhaust setup. On the other hand, I loved the economy of the diesel rabbits I owned in the 80's, so maybe I want a TDI in my van?
The reality for me is that I've learned so much about troubleshooting and maintaining the WBX that I just drive a larger displacement WBX. I sometimes have fuel injection and other issues come up on the road but I'm ok with working on my van. Haven't had to pay a mechanic in a long time. (I also live in CA so for now I don't want to mess with the smog ref to get a Zetec engine smogged and reg'd in state. I might try it one day.)
The original poster said he has kids, takes long road trips, wants a reliable conversion with more power. And he said he's saving his money (meaning he probably doesn't have a money tree in the backyard, and he has to go to work everyday). For someone like this I push the Bostig conversion because you can get the whole thing done for about $5k, and do it yourself with good support from the Bostig guys. And you get a brand new ECU, brand new wiring harness, extremely durable, modern, distributorless, high-tech engine that revs to 7k rpm and is nice and smooth. Cheap parts. Easy maintenance.
I helped my friend get a zetec engine from a junkyard ($400, 19k miles). He bought the bostig kit and I helped with the installation, and I drove the van for a few months. Outstanding support from the bostig guys. The kit is well designed so you just put it together and it works. We installed it in a syncro, and added 15" wheels with large diameter BFG's and the thing is fun to drive. Nice smooth power. Not a rocket ship but probably similar to a healthy EJ22. I've also driven a Bostig'ed multivan with a ford zetec supercharger setup. That thing moved like a modern car. In a vanagon, I think we'd call it "fast."
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1990 GL 7-passenger
2.2 liter WBX |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Did i mention i did hte swap myself(saved mucho). I Got the harness done by stefan as well as the brackets/motor mounts. I got my swap for $1k with only 40k miles. I spent roughly 5-6k total in parts |
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thummmper
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2009
Posts: 2015
Location: Meadow Valley, California Republic
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Its just particulate soot! It falls to the ground. It's harmless! diesels......
the optimum config is what we all need--
beaucoups power and torque,
decent mileage,
reasonably clean environmentally,
relatively easy to find,
reasonably priced,
good to great performance characteristics,
lineage of dependability,
broad production range ensuring future availability and cost control,
factory matched powertrain so we dont chase the wagon with details.
subaru h6's are too rare. If I'm going to spend 3 weeks in the proctolosis
of my van, it's gonna be worth it.
that's why I like the 1994 chrysler 3.5 longitudinal engine and transaxle
for my middie. It's found in the new yorker. the block clears the a-arms
and everything points in the right direction.
5 speed fwd package for the rear wheels.
it's either that or an A6 quattro transaxle behind a gm 4.3 v6. sequential
injection. cast iron heads and block, no headgasket history ever. smooth as a 327.
worst case scenario, you lose the middle seat bottom in back, but not the bed.
since westys have fatter seats, you lose even less.
there is 25" from the bottom of the 094 to the under deck. the 3.5 is 24"
total height. It is 26" from cv center to front of engine. pan mods arent out of the question. overall length is 39".
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/666064.jpg
I don't mind a little deck violation, if that, for the convenience of factory gearing and unsurpassed smooth performance.
Things I won't need to buy:
vss sensor--bell housing adaptor--fancy clutch--fancy cooling system--
gearing bandaids for the incorrect box-- fancy exhaust system--
I can get the whole enchilada for less than 2500.00. true, I will have to adapt the half shafts,
if I dont want to use chrysler venters and hubs. It's also OBD1
My search continues to verify.
todd
Last edited by thummmper on Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Caution: I will not thread jack, but propose the OP add to his requirements. One seems quite obvious, to me, that the conversion should be "simple" or not too hard to reproduce. Also, the questions of spares should be addressed, I think (because lookie at all the parts that are NLA currently (until VW Classic Parts decides to make them again at 5X the price).)
Back to the OP thread starter, though. My wbx runs "exactly" as it should (50+ years of VW experience kept it that way.) But, it is not optimal, in my mind and, it seems, many others. Don't get me wrong, around town it was fine. But, I would not go on a week long road trip with the family. That engine fails in the reliability and serviceability requirements.
So some points to consider when discussing optimal solutions for the "ideal" Vanagon engine.
Dead Meat....
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: |
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I suppose that was a joke about diesel soot.
In fact, the particulates from diesel exhaust are one of the worst air pollutants in terms of effects on human health.
Now - back to gnd. clearance: for a 1986 Vanagon - 2wd automatic, the Bostig reduces gnd. clearance by 1.75" - so it is of no use to me. They say it does not affect the gnd. clearance on a Syncro however.
If I was going thru all the hassle of an engine swap, I'd want something with LOTS more power than stock - the Bostig falls short there also, but is cheap & easy to put in.
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
I suppose that was a joke about diesel soot.
In fact, the particulates from diesel exhaust are one of the worst air pollutants in terms of effects on human health.
Now - back to gnd. clearance: for a 1986 Vanagon - 2wd automatic, the Bostig reduces gnd. clearance by 1.75" - so it is of no use to me. They say it does not affect the gnd. clearance on a Syncro however.
If I was going thru all the hassle of an engine swap, I'd want something with LOTS more power than stock - the Bostig falls short there also, but is cheap & easy to put in. |
If you hunt well the 1.8t can be the same price or cheaper......Do research, ask questions, drive all options, and make the wise decision: Go 1.8t......  |
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ohlott ..
nice set up...
if you don't mind a question... who did the work and what Subie engine you have in there..? ( I am in California too..OC)
thanks |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Re: "diesel soot" comments: if you prefer to lump modern TDIs with older diesels, go for it. But shouldn't you then lump all modern gas engines with the older gas engines that pollute? Sorry, your lack of education on modern diesel technology is showing. The latest CR engines meet the same stringent standards as all gasoline engines.
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:20 am Post subject: |
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if you are talking about the systems qualified by the EPA in the last year or two, such as the MB Blu-tech, then I agree
if you are talking about earlier "clean" diesels, then it is your lack of knowledge of the epidemiological literature that is showing
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
if you are talking about the systems qualified by the EPA in the last year or two, such as the MB Blu-tech, then I agree
if you are talking about earlier "clean" diesels, then it is your lack of knowledge of the epidemiological literature that is showing |
Clean diesel technology has been in production for far longer than 2 years in Europe. Even the previous version TDIs here (USA) are not filthy soot emitters as some would have you believe, unless modified incorrectly or catalysts removed. The CR TDIs will soon be an option as more are sold here. |
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BlackDogVan
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2007
Posts: 855
Location: Vancouver Island
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:09 am Post subject: |
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How for the love of pete have we gotten into ANOTHER engine swap thread, their are more than enough here!
I like the post for bostig & subi's for their reliability over a diesel...
Not that a subi isn't but how many of them routinely go 500,000+ km? I have had 8 years of life with my 50* AAZ install, its followed me in 2 vans & except for air filter's, oil changes & very basic maintenance I've put $0.00 into caps, rotors, O2 sensors, plugs, wires, maf sensors, injectors etc all the while enjoying an average of 8.75 l/100km mixed city highway (I commute). This is the older style VW diesel, the tdi's are significantly more efficient & cleaner running.
Ground clearance?
Nuff said.
ECU? No thank you. I left my lights on all day 4 hrs up a logging road, it'll run with almost no power. I push started it & it got me home without enough power in the batt to even honk the horn or run the stereo.
Full disclosure, I'm a diesel guy, I love the sound of a spooled turbo & the way they deliver torque. I toodle around town usually up a gear or two from where i'd be with the wbx, traffic is alot easier when you shift half as much.
Here's a dyno from a 1Z/AHU tdi, so bolt in with vanagon diesel parts & this is nowhere near the max that tuners get from a tdi.
That engine will still deliver monster mileage & go & go & go...
Gearing? The fallback position for all anti diesel arguements. With GW springs I can clear a larger diameter tire giving the same result as a 4.57 ring and pinion. Easy, I was going to do it anyway, I love my GW H&R's. 1985's clear enough rubber stock. Ask WWvictoria.
If your van has bagged out the stock motor & your upgrading the engine its time for a tranny rebuild anyway so you're really only looking at the 3rd & 4th gear cost anyway if you don't want to go the tire route. Lots of the high hp subi / 1.8t builds i've seen changed the gearing too so kinda a moot point.
@Ben - &1500/ head for 200hp? 
& posts that only reference max hp really have no place in a genuine discussion about driveability & on the road enjoyment. Yes the above tuned tdi only as 136hp (@ the wheels) but look at the torque delivery!!!
Myself? I'm finishing up a Mtdi build. My personal choice, I don't think all the other options suck It's just what I prefer. It'd be nice if these threads revolved around expounding the merits of your choice instead of trying to pick apart other options. |
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