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j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9791
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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 Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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That looks like it would work with a later tranny in an old style circular mount, since no mount there would be necessary.
I'll look into this, as my '59 SS Kombi is LOUD with a solid front mount, which was all I could fit in there.
If anyone has photos of this mid-mount style setup with a tunnel tranny in a splitcase mount bus, it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
j.
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| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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That is exactly what this thread is about. We are looking for a way to mount later style trannies into split case vintage buses without hacking the mount, or having to use the solid mount adapter.
I am working next door to a buddies fabrication shop. I spoke with one of his guys today about this mount. He told me it would be no big deal to build something. I am sending a link to this thread to his email and we will look at it tomorrow to see if he can build it for me. I will post up here with whatever I find.
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Andrew
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Joined: October 27, 2000
Posts: 5865
Location: Who in the what now?
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I think I like that one the best.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I like the fact that it uses stock VW trans mounts, too. I think we have a winner.
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joescoolcustoms
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Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| I like the fact that it uses stock VW trans mounts, too. I think we have a winner. |
Not only useing stock rubber, but looks easy to manufacture AND for the purist, easy to remove any evidence that it was on there.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Andrew
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2000
Posts: 5865
Location: Who in the what now?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| I like the fact that it uses stock VW trans mounts, too. I think we have a winner. |
That's what I like about it. So 20 years down the road, you don't have to worry about finding replacement mounts for a midmount made by a company that may or may not be in business anymore. They're just stock transmission mounts for a VW.
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chrisflstf
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Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3444
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are worried about parts obsolescense, you should buy your spare parts now, rather than wait 20 years |
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Andrew
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Joined: October 27, 2000
Posts: 5865
Location: Who in the what now?
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| If you are worried about parts obsolescense, you should buy your spare parts now, rather than wait 20 years |
 I'm just saying I like planning for the future. Same reason I like disc brake kits that use off the shelf parts rather than custom made parts. If the (one) company that makes the parts goes out of business, what are you going to do when you need a new rotor? Parts are never lifetime parts...
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joescoolcustoms
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Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| If you are worried about parts obsolescense, you should buy your spare parts now, rather than wait 20 years |
I will be running a 215 85 15 TSL Super Swampers tires on my '59 SC. They are hard to get, and out of production right now, but I do not want to buy all I can get in anticipation for use in 20 years. I would rather buy current rubber when I need it, not 10, 15 or 20 year old rubber.
Besides, I can only store so many VW parts.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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chrisflstf
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Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3444
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If the (one) company that makes the parts goes out of business, what are you going to do when you need a new rotor? |
I do just like Clint Eastwood told the Marines in Heartbreak Ridge - Improvise, Adapt and Overcome  |
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Andrew
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Joined: October 27, 2000
Posts: 5865
Location: Who in the what now?
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If the (one) company that makes the parts goes out of business, what are you going to do when you need a new rotor? |
I do just like Clint Eastwood told the Marines in Heartbreak Ridge - Improvise, Adapt and Overcome |
Why make things hard on yourself, though? Isn't it easier to plan for the future? 
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crusty67t2
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Joined: January 11, 2005
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Location: flori-duh!!!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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WOW... oldspeed sells one.
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| I like the fact that it uses stock VW trans mounts, too. I think we have a winner. |
Not only useing stock rubber, but looks easy to manufacture AND for the purist, easy to remove any evidence that it was on there. |
I spoke with my fabricator buddy yesterday (also a VW guy, he drives a 59 single cab) about these. He liked the last one also, mostly for the fact that it uses stock parts. One thing he pointed out was that he would like to see it bolted on rather than welded.
The pic shows welds that he says would likely be much less strong than if it were bolted. Those frame rails are often so contaminated with oil from 30,40,50 years of tranny leaks that the welds tend to be weaker than they should be for that application. Not to mention the fact that welding overhead is never a favorite, and many folks will just weld it as good as they can considering the circumstances (weld berries up your sleeves, etc.) and just say "good enough". Plus, that is rather thin metal compared to the 3/16" plate welded to it. Not the greatest combo.
His recommendation, and also the way I will build mine, is to use the through bolts from the mounts and another piece of plate to actually sandwich the flanges of the tranny horns. One bolt, one clamp, at each of the four areas where the mount contacts the tranny horn flanges. It would still use the curved plate on top of the mount. This would stop movement in both up/down directions, and the rear mounts would take care of fore/aft movement. The other advantage of this style would be that there is literally no disturbance of the originality of the vehicle. Not a big deal for many, but it is for some.
The last thing he pointed out was that he would use 2X1 channel (or even appropriately sized angle) instead of tubing. Tubing is a dirt catcher, and that will hold moisture, which will create rust. It is also impossible to properly powder coat inside a tube. The other issue is getting that inside nut started through that little hole in the tube. Not an insurmountable task, but it could be much easier.
He has a CNC plasma cutter, and said we could make it all out of one piece of plate and break it to the shape needed so there would be no welds at all. Probably over-complicating things, but it could be cool. I will be experimenting with this soon, I will post my findings.
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GDOG57
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Joined: March 19, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: Gilbert,Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a good idea. But i wonder if "U-BOLTS" would be better.
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Andrew
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Joined: October 27, 2000
Posts: 5865
Location: Who in the what now?
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
I spoke with my fabricator buddy yesterday (also a VW guy, he drives a 59 single cab) about these. He liked the last one also, mostly for the fact that it uses stock parts. One thing he pointed out was that he would like to see it bolted on rather than welded.
The pic shows welds that he says would likely be much less strong than if it were bolted. Those frame rails are often so contaminated with oil from 30,40,50 years of tranny leaks that the welds tend to be weaker than they should be for that application. Not to mention the fact that welding overhead is never a favorite, and many folks will just weld it as good as they can considering the circumstances (weld berries up your sleeves, etc.) and just say "good enough". Plus, that is rather thin metal compared to the 3/16" plate welded to it. Not the greatest combo. |
Welds usually aren't very good if you're welding to metal that hasn't been cleaned very well, but if you clean the area first and then make sure it's welded by a good welder, welds are almost always going to be stronger than a bolted joint.
| cdennisg wrote: |
| His recommendation, and also the way I will build mine, is to use the through bolts from the mounts and another piece of plate to actually sandwich the flanges of the tranny horns. One bolt, one clamp, at each of the four areas where the mount contacts the tranny horn flanges. It would still use the curved plate on top of the mount. This would stop movement in both up/down directions, and the rear mounts would take care of fore/aft movement. The other advantage of this style would be that there is literally no disturbance of the originality of the vehicle. Not a big deal for many, but it is for some. |
I don't know if you could even use through bolts at the mounts. The mounts aren't flat so the inside through bolts might end up hitting the transmission?
| cdennisg wrote: |
| The last thing he pointed out was that he would use 2X1 channel (or even appropriately sized angle) instead of tubing. Tubing is a dirt catcher, and that will hold moisture, which will create rust. It is also impossible to properly powder coat inside a tube. The other issue is getting that inside nut started through that little hole in the tube. Not an insurmountable task, but it could be much easier. |
2x1, I could see using if you felt the need, but there is no way I would swap out using tubing for using agle iron. Tubing is worlds stronger than angle iron. While tubing can hold dirt, that's easily something you could blow out with a hose once a year or so and be fine. After all, your jackpoints are tubing, as well, how worried are you about them? Getting the nut started wouldn't be too hard. Just put the nut inside a shallow 13mm socket and put the socket in the hole and start turning?
| cdennisg wrote: |
| He has a CNC plasma cutter, and said we could make it all out of one piece of plate and break it to the shape needed so there would be no welds at all. Probably over-complicating things, but it could be cool. I will be experimenting with this soon, I will post my findings. |
If it's possile to make it all out of one piece, that's always a better idea.
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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U-bolts may be a viable option. We discussed that possibility. There should be room to go up and over the tranny horns with a U-bolt.
I think there is room for the inner mount bolts to clear, but that is what experimentation is for.
As far as the welds go, he is a certified welder with a couple of decades of experience in the field, so I trust what he says. He told me about welding recently on the bed of the local steel delivery company's truck to mount a hoist. Though the welds came out strong enough, no amount of grinding and cleaning would get the metal clean enough for pretty welds. And that was all in areas that were easy to access and weld.
I am going to give it a try, I like the idea of a bolt-on solution. It will get welded if necessary, though.
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chrisflstf
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Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3444
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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If you want a real cheap solution, you can drill a hole in the top of each frame horn, run a loop of chain, over the trans, covered with rubber hose and attach the chain to the bolts on the frame horn. This will only prevent upward movement. It was on my first truck from years ago and worked ok.
Fwiw, Im working on making a rear engine support bar for my truck, using a Type III rear engine support bar that attaches to the rear of the motor (must be a Universal style case) and bolts to the bumper bracket holes on the frame rails. |
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joescoolcustoms
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Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Having just cut my trans cradle out, lowered it, and re-welded it back in, Welding is the way to go if you have a welder.
I had no problem cleaning up my '59 to take a very strong weld. Midway on page 8: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=303792&start=140
I too hate welding upside down, but why weld these brackets upside down? Weld them on the top part where a 2 inch weld can be made on each contact point. I agree tho... a welded braket is harder to reverse and make look OG later.
No way would I use angle on the horizontal brace. I ran a rear tubing traction bar on a beetle for 9 years through salt, snow, mud and rain without cleaning it out. The cad plating was slightly worn, but no where rusted. How do you get mud all the way up in a tube unless you are driving sideways?
Bolting may work OK and I would like to hear back after some road miles on that. I think with a pressed channel (OG cradle) and bolted it would slowly squash during mild rough driving enough to allow to work loose.
Many, many options for about every taste, that is why I like this site so much.[/url]
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Sancho
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