Stigma attached to the WBX?

[Volksaholic]

[Crankey]

I don't think of my WBX as having a stigma...it's ok. nothing great though. it's without a doubt the weakest link in my vehicle overall.

coolant loss due to head corrosion ? that's ridiculous. but on day 3 of ownership I was doing head gaskets. as of today I'm on my second water pump in 3 years, because the wp shaft is so short and only has one bearing, the alt/wp belt needs to be a tad too tight due to the minimal contact on the crank pulley so the wp shaft gets worn out too fast.

aside from the corroding heads, the coolant system is overcomplicated, I've had more problems with it than any other car I've owned. probably more than any car my mom as owned as well and of course she's been driving 30 years more than I have !

add to that all the NLA parts and sure people are gonna start looking at swaps. never mind that the VW world is filled with people who LOVE to experiment. thankfully.

I'm not over anxious to do the swap, but I'll do a swap before I sell the vehicle. and I do think when swap time comes it'll be a better functioning vehicle. I will feel more comfortable adding power steering and air conditioning. as it is I feel like I'd be sacrificing HP I need just to keep it moving down the road. I mean under 100HP is enough to get me where I need to go ok, and my engine is running fine. but there's not alot of headroom.

[onwardtothestars]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Neither of my WBX vans has ever wanted for more power, as I've consistently flogged the beasts hard and often, and always but always, in the left lane. They've never used much oil, and not so much as a single headgasket, either. I sold the first van to my BIL over a decade ago, and all he's done since then is routine maintenance.

Even though I'm not much of a fan of the quirky little knuckleheads, in my anecdotal world it's WBX = 2, Haterz = 0
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[D Clymer]

[tschroeder0]

It's obvious that some people have had some pretty bad luck with their wbx'er but I often wonder what the root cause is? Is it truly a bad design or is it the lack of any maintenance for god knows how many years while it was sitting in someone's back yard?

Over the years of getting to know the quirks I now find myself incredibly confident that i can drive anywhere anytime of the year and fix whatever may come up...and what has come up is very little over the course of 11 years. And I have done just that.
I have been stranded exactly 2 times. The first was my own stupid fault efin' with the hall sender wires when on the road (don't ever do this)

the second was my transmission.

I figured out the other day that in those years I have put roughly 70-80,000 miles on in cross county trips and then there is the daily driving...
a lot more miles in summer and winter.

I also believe that there are a heck of a lot of people that hardly ever drive their stock vans and then when it's time to roll on a long anticpated trip, another simple thing that should have been delt with a long time ago stops them. They gett pissed and shell out a big amount of $ for a swap.

This is the best reason I have heard for a swap; those people who only drive their van for trips and otherwise it's parked. I also think that they will run into similar problems down the line with whatever powerplant they choose. These van like to be driven and the more you drive them they better they seem to run.

I have considered swaps but man, now with so many doing them I can drive down the road about 5 miles in 2 different directions here in boulder and pick up somene's "old" wbxer from Verner's or Wild westy's for almost nuthin and bam! I'm back crusing for a long time.

Plus, over time, and while still on the road with the van I have slowly picked up all those things that harbor the most bugs and replaced them (wiring harness,TB,TC's new vacuum switch,etc...) so as far as economical driving goes, for the overall cost my wbxer's have been pretty sweet.

To each their own, but to call them junk is silly, my next trip with mine will be to Costa Rica- gasp!

[Volksaholic]

[syncrosimon]

I am the biggest fan of the WBX, I drive usually with the window open locally so I can hear that great little mill of an engine purring away out the back.

When I was a kid my dad had a building business and had a fleet of Vanagons. We had Caravelle's as well as I have 4 brothers and sisters. My dad had a total of 5 new ones, and each was traded in at 130,000 miles. The breakdowns that I remember were a plastic coolant hose union snapping, and a ignition amplification module heading south. There was never a mechanical breakdown with the engine, but we did have a recon gearbox at 100,000 on one of the vehicles.

The only engine failure we had in nearly 800,000 miles of wbx ing was on a second hand syncro my dad bought back in 1990, it had been worked on by a home mechanic who had replaced the water pump, this had a leaky headgasket and we bought a new engine, which went on for 110,000 miles until my dad crashed it at speed on the motorway!

You just have to accept that engines which are old and have been tampered with are not going to be reliable, whatever brand. Any replacement engine is going to be better simply because it is newer. Most swap out there engines because they have to due to poor running and a new engine is going to be way better, no matter how good the wbx was when it was new.

My engine is on around 40,000 miles now. I really dont know what I will do when it does come to the end. Probably attempt a home rebuild, then without a tencent over here go for a sensible subi.
_________________
1991 16" 2.1 DJ Syncro factory hightop ex Finnish Army Ambulance, now sold.
Thinking about Thing or 181 (182) ownership.

[SyncroGhia]

I'm also a fan of the original Flat water cooled 2.1 and believe that it can be a reliable engine if built properly and well maintained. It is an old design and will always lose to more modern engine designs but I bought my T3 Syncro 16 because it's old and there's nothing else like it.

The biggest hike in power I've seen on these engines is by bolting on a set of 1.4:1 ratio rockers. Power went up 11 bhp from this alone!

MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD

[vanagonjr]

Coming from a full westy air cooled Vanagon, my 86 WBX Westfalia Weekender feels fine!

Still some day, I'll do an engine conversion, but the VWoA factory it came with keeps going. I agree with poster who listed the prices of key parts. heck, replacing plastic manifolds, t-stat housings (with metal) & hoses is a down payment on the conversion. I also agree that the cooling system is overly complicated and it too has been my source of problems almost making me wish I had the 81 back, forgetting about the trauma trying to merge off uphill on-ramps.

As far as leaking heads go, a friend of mine said, why not just pull them ahead of time and do the job as maintenance? Of course, tasks like that are simple for him, still he has a point. I'd like a conversion so I could put them in the van and let them take an extended travel while I work, flying out to join them out west for a few weeks. I'd also like the power for kayak's on top, trailer in back.

Lot's of good points made on this thread - both pro and con.

John

[Zeitgeist 13]

Samba --> Vanagon/Eurovan:

Offbrand = 2109
Volkswagen = 657
Vanagon conversion sub-forum = 0
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[j_dirge]

The WBXer curse.

My WBXer won't die.

I drive it too fast.
I haul and tow too much weight.
I run it low on oil.. then over fill it.
I lug it.
I rev it too high.
I put crappy gas in it.
Either I try and drive like Shumacher.. or pretend I'm in the 1000.
I procrastinate on routine maintenance.
It has an exhuast leak that I can't/won't fix.
I buy oversized tires, it sits 3" higher than stock... but I will drive it at 70mph on the FWY..
I DIDN'T CHNAGE MY FUEL LINES!

STILL.. It gets 20mpg on the HWY
It passes CA emissions with a 12 yr old cat... and 175k on the clock.
People make cash offers.. complete strangers on the street.

<sigh>
..it just won't die.

The curse.


Merry Christmas everybody.

_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[Wildthings]

If VW would have warrantied the problems with these rigs instead of forcing people to live with them or go elsewhere to find answers I would have a better attitude towards the WBX and VOA, but they didn't. Our Multi suffered from the cold weather variant of Vanagon Syndrome and VW refused to fix it because we couldn't make it happen when driving around the block at the dealership. They admitted that it was a well known problem but they just wouldn't fix it. Of course we couldn't make it happen at the dealer as it only happened when driving at sustained highways speeds for at least 20 miles at temperatures below 20°F. We are about 70 miles from the airport and this meant that we would have to pull over and let the heat soak into the FI two or three times for ten minutes when trying to make an early morning winters flight. Real fun if the temperatures are 5° out and the wind is so strong it is lifting water from the river and adding a 1/4 inch of ice to the side of your rig each minute, very kind of VW to put us through this. Couple this with crap like the oil cooler o-ring failure which any decent company would have fixed for free and the dozens of things that can leak and you have a pretty questionable product.

The number of complaints VW got about these engines eventually skyrocketed to the point that VW began replacing them for free when they failed, even years and hundreds of thousands of mile after the warranty ran out. Had they notified owners that they would do this, it would be a plus for VOA, instead they only replaced engines where the customer came in and complained bitterly. By the time our heads started leaking and the rod bolt stretch became a problem I had long given up on trying to deal with as corrupt a company as VOA. I had complained constantly about the various problems we had had with our 1 owner Vanagon and had taken it in for warranty work repeatedly with no satisfaction except to make the VW mechanics waste some of their time. Eventually I figured out how to fix or at least do jury rig repairs to all the problems we were having, so didn't even think to go to the dealer and complain when the heads started dripping and later when the oil pressure began to drop.

[insyncro]

I have a few Syncros with the stock waterboxer still going strong.
Not the fastest vehicle by any means, but those 2.1s really do last after they have been sealed up properly and serviced regularly.
When they gernade, I put in Subaru engines, but until that point...

Long live the waterboxer.

dylan

[Volksaholic]

[iltis74]

Engine conversions, as far as I can tell, are just the tuning world of the Vanagons. I've had a few Splits and Beetles in the past, right now I still have a '74 Thing and a '65 Beetle. The Beetle is equipped with a 2387. The Thing will soon be seeing a warmed-up 2.0 Type IV. When I eventually found myself with a water cooled Vanagon the first thing I did was come on here researching camshafts. Well I hate to break it to you people, but your aftermarket sucks. The biggest, baddest, highest evolution of it is a "kit," of all things, with a whopping 125hp. Really? No one on here bickers about camshafts. There is no talk of exhaust scavenging. Newbies are told to change their fuel lines, not to go with 1.25:1 rockers and a 4-1 collector. It's no wonder I have an SVX with a blown tranny in Moms driveway.

This is a hobby for me, no VW has ever been my daily driver. I'm not looking for the perfect motor, and I'm not looking to get rid of that 2.1 POS. I'm looking for upgrades, and fun, and cool parts, and my fix. Pick up an issue of Hot VW's. How many stock motors do you find there? Not many, so how can I be expected to be happy with just new fuel lines? Ain't gonna happen.

[Zeitgeist 13]

[VisPacem]

[iltis74]

[wenholzm]

I have had my WBX in a '85 Westy for one year. I had been lurking around these threads for a while and the only reason I bought was with the knowledge that I would/could convert to Subaru, since the WBX was so old.
One year later and 12,000 miles with my WBX, I am very happy with my little engine, Never left me on the road, I have had issues, but the engine is tight and does what I expect. Hills are an issue as everyone knows, but beyond that it is great. I will keep as long as it gets me where I want to go, if I can 100K out of this little engine, all the better.

Can we just be happy with the engine we are with?