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type 1 IRS with gear reductions project
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: type 1 IRS with gear reductions project Reply with quote

here's my coworker's IRS reduction project. He had built a reduction setup about 20 years ago and it didnt' make it down the driveway before it ripped to pieces. He had a spare reduction transaxle and finally decided to do something with it... the following is a couple of weeks worth of evenings and a bit of learning about early vs. late and gears, etc.

he cut the bearing boxes off of the back of the irs control arms and welded on 3/4" thick square plates, and at 90' to those he added 1/2" thick plates with gussets to reinforce... he cut off the axle tubes and cut down the axles and welded type 1 cv-flange ends to the axles, and used sealed bearings on the input shafts. He was originally going to use early small-nut outputs but they were taking too long to round up so he cut down and re-drilled the bus drum to use with his brakes, iirc they're 914 rotors with 912 front calipers. He has a lathe and quite a bit of work was needed to keep everything true and round.

(and yes, he flipped the ring gear so he's got 4 forward gears instead of 4 reverse ones)

Engine is a 1835 with a big cam (c45 iirc) 009, 041 heads, scat forged cw crank, and dual dells he's had for many, many years.

"it'll either work, or it will rip it's self to shreds" he says. He mostly did it because he enjoys trying to get crazy stuff to work... if it balls up he'll just swap it back to IRS, though I did pick up an extra late reduction transaxle while on a trip to atlanta for him for some spares... so he might be tempted to do a take II. (well, take IIa maybe)

(edited to refine description of engine)

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Last edited by vw_nick on Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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rubsterob
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow that looks kinda cool
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

he got it going this weekend... beat the crap out of it in his yard / paved driveway and nothing flew apart.
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Beladona_13
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see pics / video of it in action....
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm bringing my camera with me when we go out memorial day weekend so hopefully I'll get some footage I can post to youtube. He said it "stands up like an iguana" (ie, raised up on all fours just prior to running like crazy) when you get on the throttle.
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dcamomanx
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick
I had a similar project but the problem I had was that the rear would jump up and down during hard accel. Have you guys noticed any hopping

Doran
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He said it doesn't jump up and down but it does completely extend the rear suspension completely. He's going to install some limit straps since it seems to want to rip the shocks apart. Were your gearboxes at a similar angle ?
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Thingster
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This exact idea has been rolling around in my head since I swapped my buggy to IRS, didn't see any reason why the reduction boxes couldn't be mated to IRS trailing arms to get the best of both worlds.

Looking forward to updates.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine were upright or just like they would be in a early bus. The rear would rise whenever power was added. It made the rear stiff and not allow the suspension to work. on hard accel the rear would hop. I am now toying with the idea laying the rgb back straight in line w the spring plate. I am hoping it will help eliminate the rear from rising as much.
Keep us posted on how it works

Doran
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bdkw1
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcamomanx wrote:
Mine were upright or just like they would be in a early bus. The rear would rise whenever power was added. It made the rear stiff and not allow the suspension to work. on hard accel the rear would hop. I am now toying with the idea laying the rgb back straight in line w the spring plate. I am hoping it will help eliminate the rear from rising as much.
Keep us posted on how it works

Doran


With the gear reduction on the end of the arm like that, position will not do much to help the problem. The only way to eliminate it is a floating housing and torque rod like the Johny Johnson no hop kit's had. With the IRS set-up this really isn't feasible. A 5 link rear end could be made to have no torque reaction though.........
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DirtGhost
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a very cool setup !!! Love to see a video of this thing !
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tanner_122
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very cool set up!!
can we see more pics?
im intrested in seeing how u have the shocks mounted Question
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
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thefladge
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link to the video does not seem to work.
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops - cut short.

here:


Link

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thefladge
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I see it.

Wheel hop does not seem too bad.
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drove it, it gets real stiff back there but I couldn't feel what I'd call hop. It did get a little dicy with the rear tires breaking loose when the rpms came into the engine's power band, so to say. we'll see how it does on trails and up hills in a few weeks.
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vw_nick
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the gear reductions worked out great, Mike gave the buggy a pretty god pounding last weekend and nothing came apart!

added a video from this weekend:


Link

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williamdenson
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that the work and effort to do this is notable.

If someone had mentioned doing this to me, I would have said "no", it probably won't work.

Well,, I saw it.. He made it work it appears ....

I have a question. How did he mount the rear caliper brackets ??? Of all the photos, I never saw any showing the brackets....

Thanks
B
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my380turbo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question... How does he keep the IRS stub axle in the Upper gear of the Reduction box? How does he keep it sealed? any pics of the modification/assembly process?
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