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szegedin7 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2017 Posts: 117 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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Since the vanagon doesn't have an OBDII port for one of those MPG sensor thingies, I guess it's difficult to measure.
One one hand, the stock waterboxer vanagon may develop peak torque at pretty high speed -- I don't know, I have an automatic with no tach -- but maybe 70mph?
On the other hand, aerodynamics probably become a more significant factor for us, gentlemen, than most other vehicles as you get over 45mph.
If anyone has ever measured this, I would be interested to hear your results. If you don't know what you're talking about, feel free to bloviate your own cockamamie opinions
My van is pretty stripped down and light -- much lighter than a larded-up westy -- at about 3200lbs, and it seems to love to go about 45-50mph all day long, getting over 22mpg. Just curious what the real sweet spot is for "hyper" miling a vanagon. _________________ 1990 Vanagon 2.1 |
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brickster Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004 Posts: 512 Location: CO, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a vanagon? |
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If you search online, there are studies concluding that 45-50 is peak MPG across a broad sample of vehicle shapes. Assuming your speedo is correct (what’s your wheel/tire combo?), you are getting well above expected MPG for an automatic.
Less weight and tire pressure, tuneups, etc all contribute, but top speed and acceleration/braking style are most relevant, IMO. |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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ZERO. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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szegedin7 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2017 Posts: 117 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a vanagon? |
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brickster wrote: |
If you search online, there are studies concluding that 45-50 is peak MPG across a broad sample of vehicle shapes. Assuming your speedo is correct (what’s your wheel/tire combo?), you are getting well above expected MPG for an automatic.
Less weight and tire pressure, tuneups, etc all contribute, but top speed and acceleration/braking style are most relevant, IMO. |
Cool, that's about what I expected. It just feels right for the van -- that engine rpm -- and I'm over 300,000 miles without a rebuild so I'm doing something right. I have the 14" wheels with r185 tires - the speedo overcounts a little. I'm calculating mpg based on actual miles from google maps.
Acceleration style is the whole key to the kingdom of longevity / high MPG. I accelerate super slow, like it's a big rig, to the chagrin of uptight northeasterners behind me, and top out around 60, which makes me real popular on I-95. _________________ 1990 Vanagon 2.1 |
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TheMonk Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 85 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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In my ‘82 aircooled 2 litre camper a GPS speed of 56.5 mph (91kph) with the tachometer at 3000 rpm gets me around the 19.5 mpg (12 litres per 100klms). That 3000 rpm seems like a bit of a sweet spot, that’s with 195/75x14 LT tyres. |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16501 Location: Brookeville, MD
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7916 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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No matter the speed, the sweet spot for great MPG's in my van is at the front of a tail wind.🥴 _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16501 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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kamzcab86 wrote: |
No matter the speed, the sweet spot for great MPG's in my van is at the front of a tail wind.🥴 |
Or 6 feet behind a semi. I did that 45 years ago in my ‘71 and took my foot off the accelerator pedal and dropped into neutral in the massive draft. Only to prove a point. Not a wise decision if you desire a long life. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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82westyrabbit Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2015 Posts: 968 Location: Ma
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:28 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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The optimal speed is not 72. 72-75 my van gets 17.9 mpg drop that back to 68-70mph and the mpg goes up to 19. Driving the blue ridge parkway 40-45 mph my mileage goes up to 22. My van is definitely not stock(Ticco engine and air cooled transmission)but that is a pretty good indicator that 40-to 50 is the sweet spot. Back when the speed limit was 55 it got 22 mpg always. All but the old numbers are gps verified. At 55mph the van is a great ride. At 75 I start to think I need my Toyota pick up. I don’t dare drive less than 72 in Dallas for fear of getting run over. I hope this sort of helps. John |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32584 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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WestyWanter Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2017 Posts: 459 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a vanagon? |
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djkeev wrote: |
szegedin7 wrote: |
Acceleration style is the whole key to the kingdom of longevity / high MPG. I accelerate super slow, like it's a big rig, to the chagrin of uptight northeasterners behind me, and top out around 60, which makes me real popular on I-95. |
Hmmmmm.........
Speaking as a so called "up tight NorthEasterner" I've got to tell you that California pretty much has defined for the Nation hellish driving conditions, hellish traffic and unbearable congestion!
You guys make rush hour on the Long Island Expressway seem like a mere traffic speed bump!
Not to mention you having gun packing road rage people not afraid to squeeze the trigger!
Dave |
You're mainly talking about San Fran and especially LA... LA is awful unless its 9pm and onward, even then its a gamble. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32584 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:23 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a vanagon? |
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WestyWanter wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
szegedin7 wrote: |
Acceleration style is the whole key to the kingdom of longevity / high MPG. I accelerate super slow, like it's a big rig, to the chagrin of uptight northeasterners behind me, and top out around 60, which makes me real popular on I-95. |
Hmmmmm.........
Speaking as a so called "up tight NorthEasterner" I've got to tell you that California pretty much has defined for the Nation hellish driving conditions, hellish traffic and unbearable congestion!
You guys make rush hour on the Long Island Expressway seem like a mere traffic speed bump!
Not to mention you having gun packing road rage people not afraid to squeeze the trigger!
Dave |
You're mainly talking about San Fran and especially LA... LA is awful unless its 9pm and onward, even then its a gamble. |
Oh, I know I am, I'm no stranger to California. 😂😂
Generalities beget generalities.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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szegedin7 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2017 Posts: 117 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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82westyrabbit wrote: |
The optimal speed is not 72. 72-75 my van gets 17.9 mpg drop that back to 68-70mph and the mpg goes up to 19. Driving the blue ridge parkway 40-45 mph my mileage goes up to 22. My van is definitely not stock(Ticco engine and air cooled transmission)but that is a pretty good indicator that 40-to 50 is the sweet spot. Back when the speed limit was 55 it got 22 mpg always. All but the old numbers are gps verified. At 55mph the van is a great ride. At 75 I start to think I need my Toyota pick up. I don’t dare drive less than 72 in Dallas for fear of getting run over. I hope this sort of helps. John |
I agree, 40-50 seems like the sweet spot, and on long trips I sometimes take back roads to cruise along at those speeds, for the well-being of the van and for the Fahrvergnügen
Some modern cars have 6,7,8 speed transmissions and cruise along at 80mph at low rpms. But we're stuck with a 1:1 gear ratio, and it seems like the van is working way too hard at 70mph so I never drive it at those speeds, except when I have to get through a city freeway section of the trip.
No offense to the uptight northeasterners (I'm a northeasterner, but not an uptight one) but the driving up here is hands down the most aggressive, hostile, and sociopathic. Have lived in NYC, SF, LA, and the South, and the NE I-95 corridor is the worst, from NY to Virginia. People will slice your face off for an inch of tarmac. LA is friendly by comparison. It's always a bummer getting back to the Jersey Turnpike and all the uncalled-for aggro. _________________ 1990 Vanagon 2.1 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32584 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:56 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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I am a Jersey Native but am about as far from uptight as possible.
I don't disagree about I-95.
I've noticed that Interstates in general seem to bring out the worst in people.
"MY ROAD! GET OUT OF THE WAY !"
I almost never travel them unless I must, no matter what I'm driving.
There are just too many people today, the population has more than doubled in my life time alone!
I think the disregard for basic traffic laws speaks volumes about our society today.
Rules are for losers.
Overall I've found the nicest people behind me as I putter along with my 90 ponies behind me!
I of course encourage them to pass at any safe (for me) opportunity.
They wave and I get thumbs up as they pass....... or is that the middle finger? 😂
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:13 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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_________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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Steve M. wrote: |
ZERO. |
HAH!! That's a very good speed for MPG.
As others have said and will say, aerodynamics doesn't really come into it until 45-50MPH, and the best mileage numbers I've generated have come on roads that favour slowness. YMMV _________________ '84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32584 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2559 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:19 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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here is what i've been keeping track of over the past 3 months in my 91 Westy here in PA.
mainly using the US highway system @ 45 to 55 mph - 20 mpg
mainly using the Interstates @ 65 to 75 mph - 18 mpg
mixed use of city roads and state routes @35 to 45 mph - 16 mpg
only city driving in Philly @25 to 35 mph - 14 mpg (stop and go it a killer)
this is using summer blend gasoline, curious how it will change this fall. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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szegedin7 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2017 Posts: 117 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:48 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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dabaron wrote: |
here is what i've been keeping track of over the past 3 months in my 91 Westy here in PA.
mainly using the US highway system @ 45 to 55 mph - 20 mpg
mainly using the Interstates @ 65 to 75 mph - 18 mpg
mixed use of city roads and state routes @35 to 45 mph - 16 mpg
only city driving in Philly @25 to 35 mph - 14 mpg (stop and go it a killer)
this is using summer blend gasoline, curious how it will change this fall. |
Yeah I guess I'm doing better than you on the highway, but just as bad around town. It's that city MPG figure that kills me. That 75mph driving is probably harder on the engine than it is on the MPGs -- you're pushing 4000rpm, right?
I have talked here before about how the Vanagon is the ideal vehicle for a Prius drivetrain -- about the same amount of power and weight, there's plenty of room for batteries. Even if it was 30% worse because of aerodynamics, can you imagine getting 45mpg around town in a Vanagon and 30+ on the highway? Somebody take my money. _________________ 1990 Vanagon 2.1 |
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Aryana Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2015 Posts: 568 Location: Southern CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:00 am Post subject: Re: What is the actual OPTIMAL speed for MPG in a Vanagon? |
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Drag increases at a square of the speed.
Pushing the 4x8 sheet of plywood which is the front of a Vanagon over 40 MPH resukta in a big MPG hit. |
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