stripped case stud

[cmaydawg]

The fun continues. Decided to check torque on a couple case studs on flywheel end and discovered one being stripped out (8mm)and after removing noticed that it had been previously helicoiled. Any experience with that ? So far my options are to helicoil again, an insert, time sert, and something similar to loctite(cbperfomance.com/catalog.aspProductID=1408) The stud is about 6" long and rather inaccessible, with respect to tapping in a larger bore. It is specifically the stud below the cam shaft. Prefer not splitting the case. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[sgmalt46]

helicoils suck! no easy fix. in rare cases you can run the stud back in deeper and find good threads. take it apart and time sert it. if it was a head stud i would say use one of those wood screw head studs. no insert needed. there a life saver.

[keifernet]

[JERADS3D]

Ahhhhh I finally found this thread again! I didn't want to start an entire new thread since I knew this one was very similar. So here is my situation guys. I live in a very small town and met a kid with a 1970 Beetle. He's fresh to VW's and I have been teaching him what I can... passing the torch. He called me about spark plugs popping out......! Engine drop...... heads off.... all plug to valve gaps cracked. Since we bumped the cylinders loose during all of this I decided we should give them a hone and reseal them. The newbie not knowing, loosens the case stud nuts thinking it was necessary to do so to remove the cylinders. He's learning so I cut him slack since I had told him to just pull the cylinders over the phone. Most of the work I have been present for including the pulling of his engine. So today when we went to retorque the case nuts the small one near the back and bottom would not tighten. These are pics from the internet I saved to show which stud/hole. We didn't split the case... he had only loosened the nuts.

So I tried to clean and get the stud to grab threads down deep. "No Go" on that one. So here is where we stopped for the day. Is it possible to tap the hold deeper and use a longer stud/bolt? From what I can tell the engine had been running like this since he's had it. It ran no problems except for some small oil leaks....one being around this stud. That huge case stud is right there next to it. Can it carry the torque load? The guy is on a fresh out of highschool/college kid budget. What would you guys do in our shoes?
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........... _╒═══╕_JimDandy.and.EMPI-Titelock.
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.............DUSTY..........and.........SCRATCH........

[modok]

In your shoes, I'd leave it out. Save it for later.
Put a helicoil on it if you ever rebuild the bottom end.

[mark tucker]

hmm I wonder if you can through bolt it? probably not,oil gally might be in the way. or it might be possiable to drill it deeper and make a self taping stud. or if it dont leak flug it'.

[kevinhosp]

I know this is a half ass fix, but it worked for me on the same stud. I cleaned the stud and the hole up with brake cleaner and jb welded the stud in after it setup I torqued it down. It held and did not leak. If it is a budget motor I would try it. I also did this without taking the motor apart.

[mharney]

That's the critical area, the center and flywheel end ones, IMO. If you don't fix it, the engine is likely to have a short afterlife. You have to consider that it has pulled out from strain, so yeah, leaving it out is going to mean insufficient crush on the thrust bearing.

If you don't want to split it, tell him to start looking for another engine and put it back together and hope for the best.

[modok]

Mark, what center studs? This is a type one silly, no 8mm studs are in the middle.
Mine fell out three years ago, same time that I applied the ketchup sealant.

Never had to add oil. I'm not saying it's 100% oil tight, but close enough.

[JERADS3D]

Hey Mark, That's what I was wondering. I blew one of the photos up a little bit. You can see the "lump" on the back of the case where that skinny stud goes into it. Would it hurt if I "popped" through a little with a drill and then tapped it. Goober it up with some 3M something.

Somebody later on will think we were dumb asses but I am sure this is this engines case last time around. I'm fearful that if I tried to drill and tap it out larger it might crack into where the cam bearing is right next to it. Tha engine case is not original....it's from Mexico. I can probably get Jake to start setting some $$ aside to build himself a nice stocker to replace this one. We just need to buy him some time. This is his daily driver and he's in a twist of sorts with his ride being down. I try to help him as much as I can.
_________________
........... _╒═══╕_JimDandy.and.EMPI-Titelock.
......__//___][___\\............./˜˜˜"╫▓╫˜˜˜˜˜/__,\
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/((Θ))\\____|__/((Θ))\\===\___,╫░╫_/((Θ))\__./J
.............DUSTY..........and.........SCRATCH........

[RockCrusher]

Looks to me like you have a viable option there. A long drill bit to drill thru isn't the problem but how will you tap it without splitting the case? Seems like you should split it to repair it and then for about $200 in parts he could have new bearings, rings and pushrod tubes as well as a nicely sealed unleaky motor that he could go years on........

RC
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[slalombuggy]

Personally I would put in a Time-Sert from Wurth. And have a bullet proof fix that will last forever. Helicoils are absolute shit compared to them, I hate every time I have to put one of those pieces of crap in at work.

brad

[JERADS3D]

I recently learned of that alternative to the heli-coil. I would rather use that but we are pressed for time. I talked to an engine builder that I know. He feels the best thing for us to do is split the case and do the thread repair. Yes I would rather use that Time-Sert but we don't have it readily available and that stud only gets torqued to 14 pounds of torque. I know that the force will change also during the heating and cooling. I guess it's better than shoving a cork in the hole.
_________________
........... _╒═══╕_JimDandy.and.EMPI-Titelock.
......__//___][___\\............./˜˜˜"╫▓╫˜˜˜˜˜/__,\
.-==--|''''''''˜|''''"''''-=-........|____╫░╫...___˜˜˜˜˜|
/((Θ))\\____|__/((Θ))\\===\___,╫░╫_/((Θ))\__./J
.............DUSTY..........and.........SCRATCH........

[mharney]

I wouldn't use a Helicoil on anything you torque down.

[JERADS3D]

So here is the latest update in the engine teardown that started with a blown spark plug. Hmmm actually I'll breakdown a list of what occurred to bring us here.

1. Jake calls me to tell me his car spit out a spark plug and he bought a new set of plugs to install. I warn him that this may indicate that he could have stripped
threads and/or worst case cracked heads.

2. Ahhhh that phonecall came. That 1600 spit 2 of those plugs out while Jake was on his way to college classes. Tow bar to the house.

3. Jake and I drop his engine. It's his 1st time. We pull it out and visually inspect the spark plug holes on both heads. All plug to valve gaps are cracked. Eeesh.

4. I picked up a used set of heads which we refurbish. While removing the heads we bumped the cylinders a bit... unsealing them. I figure it's best to pull them and clean
and hone them. One day Jake calls me and I told him to go ahead and pull the cylinders. Jake is new at this and thought that the case nuts are what released the cylinders. Ooops.

5. Well when I came over to retorque the case nuts I had Jake start on this. That is when we noticed the rear most top stud above the cam was stripped. Here is where we jumped
into the debate as to how we should fix this in our situation.

6. After talking to no less than 5 people about the matter we decided to split the case and helicoil the stripped hole. We split the case. Right off I notice some exposed copper
on the center main bearing. Uuuugh! What next.

7. We are breaking the rest down and will be putting in a new crank and all the bearings. Now that the rest of the engine will be torn down I'll be looking into using the
Time-sert repair for the threads on the stripped stud. All the bearing mounting surfaces in the case do not show and signs if steps, grooves or wear. With the stripped
stud repaired, this engine should have another round to go.

Thanks for all the opinions so far. This has been mine and Jakes first VW case splitting experience. This is fun stuff!
_________________
........... _╒═══╕_JimDandy.and.EMPI-Titelock.
......__//___][___\\............./˜˜˜"╫▓╫˜˜˜˜˜/__,\
.-==--|''''''''˜|''''"''''-=-........|____╫░╫...___˜˜˜˜˜|
/((Θ))\\____|__/((Θ))\\===\___,╫░╫_/((Θ))\__./J
.............DUSTY..........and.........SCRATCH........

[RockCrusher]

Sounds like you're doing the right thing. Now, aren't you glad you split it? At least the copper indicates it was a decent quality bearing. Use new rings too. He will have an engine that should last him many happy miles now.

RC
_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

[mark tucker]

just make sure the timesert dosent pull up any material or stick up any so you get the case squished properly,now's the time to stroke it ,it will feel much better when your done.

[RockCrusher]

[JERADS3D]

Well I'm on hold right now. Jake's father who lives across the country in Arizona has gone ahead and purchased another engine from his VW buddies he's had for 3 decades. All he knows is it has more power than Jake really needs. I'm curious to see what it is. I recommended to him that we still continue to build this engine for Jake to have a spare. His friends wanted it as a core but I told him to compare core fee to shipping and see what's worth more plus or minus the hassle. I told him I may be interested in it if he didn't want to ship it or have us finish it for a spare. I hope to have some updates on this.... as in I really want to properly put it back together.I'll keep you all updated. And another thanks about the Time-Sert do's and don'ts. I watched some demonstration videos on it.
_________________
........... _╒═══╕_JimDandy.and.EMPI-Titelock.
......__//___][___\\............./˜˜˜"╫▓╫˜˜˜˜˜/__,\
.-==--|''''''''˜|''''"''''-=-........|____╫░╫...___˜˜˜˜˜|
/((Θ))\\____|__/((Θ))\\===\___,╫░╫_/((Θ))\__./J
.............DUSTY..........and.........SCRATCH........