| Author |
Message |
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:52 pm Post subject: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
 |
|
Replacing my fuel pump with a Brosol pump after many attempts to stop the leaks from the dome cap. This pump has the hard line connection from the fuel tank.
Since the Brosol pumps have two male connections for rubber lines, should I just cut the hard line back a little and connect the braided line or should the braided line be one piece all the way from the tank?
Thanks,
Scott
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76948
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Thanks, Glenn. I haven't purchased any pump yet. I contacted Bill to see what he has available.
I have an alternator but my fuel pump push rod is the long 4 1/4".
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Hi Scott-
I did reply to your email. I'd try to keep your engine stock and correct. As I shared in the email, I have a few options for a rebuilt Pierburg dome top that accepts the screw in fitting.
Talk to you soon.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| Is your leaking one missing the center screw gasket? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69830
Location: Phoenix Metro
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| BarryL wrote: |
| Is your leaking one missing the center screw gasket? |
Hi Barry,
No, I replaced the center bolt washer and the larger dome washer and still got seeping from the edge of the dome, no matter what tightness the bolt had. The pump has been in use on my bus with two engines and over 20 years worth of use.
I'll put it on the shelf and replace it with the same.
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| EverettB wrote: |
It sounds like you are going to stick with a screwed-in hard line but for anyone else reading, you can do either:
1. Run a soft line straight from the tank
2. Buy the alternate hard line that does not have a screw-in connection but still travels from the firewall tin up to right before the pump and has a very short piece of fuel line there
I'd pick #2 over #1 myself.
Either way you want some sort of extra protection where it passes through the firewall tin to prevent rubbing
#2 line from WW:
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113127521G
Firewall bushing
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111127591 |
Thanks, Everett! Yes, I have the bushing in the firewall and will keep the existing line to the new pump.
FYI, although I have an alternator, the fuel pump has the 108mm push rod and generator pump. Has been great for my dual Kadrons and 1776 for over 20 years.
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24765
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:26 am Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Here is my new fuel pump from Bill. Installing today.
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Fuel pump went in flawlessly. Back on the road.
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24765
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Good to hear! BTW VW never used copper fuel lines, only steel ones that were copper plated. Copper is too soft and work hardens up too easily becoming brittle, causing it to crack open.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scotts 63 23
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Somewhere in my mind... The Real er Laguna Beach :)
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Good to hear! BTW VW never used copper fuel lines, only steel ones that were copper plated. Copper is too soft and work hardens up too easily becoming brittle, causing it to crack open. |
Thanks Eric and Barb. I guess if I ever cut one I'd know that it wasn't copper. Always something to learn about my ol' bus...
_________________
'63 23 Daily Driver
www.scottmooreart.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24765
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| Scott's '63 23 wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Good to hear! BTW VW never used copper fuel lines, only steel ones that were copper plated. Copper is too soft and work hardens up too easily becoming brittle, causing it to crack open. |
Thanks Eric and Barb. I guess if I ever cut one I'd know that it wasn't copper. Always something to learn about my ol' bus... |
A magnet also works to find out if steel or not. Due to copper is not attracted by such.
A friend almost lost her bus due to fire because the DPO used copper fuel line. I saw that the line was rubbing against the intake manifold heat riser pipe. Went to bend the fuel line slightly to get it off the pipe, and the line snapped like a thin piece of candy cane. Since the fuel tank is very uphill it was pouring out gasoline from the break. I had to crawl under the bus to get to the flex fuel line at the tank and plug it off... Personally got soaked with fuel. Since than have been installing fuel reserve taps in all our driving VWs to make it so much easier to shut off fuel flow in situations like this. Even if I have to slide under and flip the tap by hand.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Regarding the inlet pipe on the fuel pump discussed in this thread, they are supposed to have a pipe that comes all the way from the front of the engine and around the shroud. The pipe is secured with a compression ferrule and a compression nut.
Does anyone know of a milled fitting that is all one piece that threads into the inlet and has a stubby pipe inlet to simulate the later pump with hose fittings for the inlet and outlet.
I know people have cut off the pipe style to make a stubby inlet but I'm asking about a brass milled piece that does it all as one piece. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| BarryL wrote: |
Does anyone know of a milled fitting that is all one piece that threads into the inlet and has a stubby pipe inlet to simulate the later pump with hose fittings for the inlet and outlet.
I know people have cut off the pipe style to make a stubby inlet but I'm asking about a brass milled piece that does it all as one piece. |
The nearest I can think of is a straight- barbed fitting. Now the threaded portion need not be compression- it just must have the correct male thread/pitch. You'd need a threadlock seal of some sort.
Google: "male thread barbed fitting" to see what I mean.
_________________
| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
|
'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Is this close? https://belmetric.com/rubber-barb-to-metric-hose-a...gIxAvD_BwE
Except you still have to use a compression ferrule...hmmmm.
"Metric Metal Connector for Rubber Hose
Good for high pressure applications, this hose connector should be paired with a cone nipple or ferrule that utilizes a metric swivel nut.
There are two options for the cone sealing surface angle: 24 Degree or 60 Degree" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5509
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:01 am Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Eric&Barb, interesting info that that line is only coated with copper and that solid copper becomes brittle with gas.
What fuel reserve taps are you using? And where best to place it for a late model bus 67?
https://www.poconomountains.com/plan-your-vacation/pocono-television-network/
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Scott's '63 23 wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Good to hear! BTW VW never used copper fuel lines, only steel ones that were copper plated. Copper is too soft and work hardens up too easily becoming brittle, causing it to crack open. |
Thanks Eric and Barb. I guess if I ever cut one I'd know that it wasn't copper. Always something to learn about my ol' bus... |
A magnet also works to find out if steel or not. Due to copper is not attracted by such.
A friend almost lost her bus due to fire because the DPO used copper fuel line. I saw that the line was rubbing against the intake manifold heat riser pipe. Went to bend the fuel line slightly to get it off the pipe, and the line snapped like a thin piece of candy cane. Since the fuel tank is very uphill it was pouring out gasoline from the break. I had to crawl under the bus to get to the flex fuel line at the tank and plug it off... Personally got soaked with fuel. Since than have been installing fuel reserve taps in all our driving VWs to make it so much easier to shut off fuel flow in situations like this. Even if I have to slide under and flip the tap by hand. |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters 
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24765
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:08 am Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Eric&Barb, interesting info that that line is only coated with copper and that solid copper becomes brittle with gas.
What fuel reserve taps are you using? And where best to place it for a late model bus 67?
] |
Copper does not get brittle from gas, but instead from the vibration of the engine and road which causes fatigue cracking of the material.
https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/72731-copper-tube-work-hardening
Been using the stock fuel tap for the type 2, it goes into the outlet opening of the fuel tank. One could use a type 1 fuel tap that fits in the tank the same way, The type 2 tap has a lever on its side to be connected to a cable, while the type 1 has a kind of ball shaped connection on it to allow using a tube (with bent end for a lever) over the knob to be cotter pinned into place. Both the manual choke and fuel tap for the type 2 were a VW dealer install options thru 1967 model year. All ambulances had reserve fuel tap as stock til at least end of 1967 model year. Thinking of installing the reserve tap in our SO-34 with a cable just short enough to get the knob into the closet. Then when we need to leave the westie somewhere we can not keep an eye on it, the tap can be set to the off position leaving only at most 2 minutes of fuel in the carb. That way when someone hot wired it, they would end up with a non-running VW in the street, which draws way too much attention for a thief. Will be also installing a shifter lock.
From the type 2 parts manual:
Type 2 fuel tap:
In situ viewed from driver side:
Fuel tap from type 1 parts manual:
Type 1 fuel tap:
type 1 fuel tap in situ:
The type 1 could be used in the bus by drilling a hole (then install the grommet) in the main frame member and make a longer tube rod for it. That would make it easier to reach without having to slide under the bus. Right now with our 1963 SC have the type 2 fuel tap and have to slide underneath to operate it.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5509
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:46 am Post subject: Re: New fuel pump. Fuel line from tank question. |
|
|
Great idea Eric&Barb to stop/slow down a thief via turning off the fuel, also interesting note that the copper cracks due to vibration. As I recall some of the guys in my other car hobby used copper for their brake line as I recall. I wouldn't and prefer as original as possible using steel lines and paying more only once. I wonder if any of those guys had brake failure due to vibration  .
Also interesting that dealers installed the type 2 tap up through 67. Is there a preferred location for my bus to place that cable & knob? Any idea where the dealer placed it? I am unfamiliar with the reserve in a pre-67.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Eric&Barb, interesting info that that line is only coated with copper and that solid copper becomes brittle with gas.
What fuel reserve taps are you using? And where best to place it for a late model bus 67?
] |
Copper does not get brittle from gas, but instead from the vibration of the engine and road which causes fatigue cracking of the material.
https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/72731-copper-tube-work-hardening
Been using the stock fuel tap for the type 2, it goes into the outlet opening of the fuel tank. One could use a type 1 fuel tap that fits in the tank the same way, The type 2 tap has a lever on its side to be connected to a cable, while the type 1 has a kind of ball shaped connection on it to allow using a tube (with bent end for a lever) over the knob to be cotter pinned into place. Both the manual choke and fuel tap for the type 2 were a VW dealer install options thru 1967 model year. All ambulances had reserve fuel tap as stock til at least end of 1967 model year. Thinking of installing the reserve tap in our SO-34 with a cable just short enough to get the knob into the closet. Then when we need to leave the westie somewhere we can not keep an eye on it, the tap can be set to the off position leaving only at most 2 minutes of fuel in the carb. That way when someone hot wired it, they would end up with a non-running VW in the street, which draws way too much attention for a thief. Will be also installing a shifter lock.
From the type 2 parts manual:
Type 2 fuel tap:
In situ viewed from driver side:
Fuel tap from type 1 parts manual:
Type 1 fuel tap:
type 1 fuel tap in situ:
The type 1 could be used in the bus by drilling a hole (then install the grommet) in the main frame member and make a longer tube rod for it. That would make it easier to reach without having to slide under the bus. Right now with our 1963 SC have the type 2 fuel tap and have to slide underneath to operate it. |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
