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dan macmillan Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003 Posts: 3110 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Member in Sudbury Ontario Canada needs your help |
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coad wrote: |
dan macmillan wrote: |
I am a member of USW Local 6500.
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I've been reading about your situation for an hour or so, and I have one question:
Is this true?
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To enforce its will, Vale has been gradually ramping up production in Sudbury using scores of contractors and so-called replacement workers, managers, and 56 skilled members from USW Local 2020 which organizes 240 office, technical and professional workers at the complex.
In October, Vale used managerial personnel and the non-striking Local 2020 workers to restart minimal mine and copper concentrate mill operations in Sudbury. |
Is that for real? These Scabs you're complaining about are members of your own Union? And they're doing it with the blessing of their Local and the National?
Dude, I'm pro-union, but if you're walking a picket line and your own Brothers are crossing it to Scab then you're in the middle of some seriously twisted nonsense up there. |
THis is true. Before the strike began, Vale came in and after promising no layoffs in a SECRET deal with our Gov't, cleaned house with the staff members. Local 2020 are steelworkers but they are not crossing with the blessing of USW. They are crossing in fear of getting terminated. The company has given them orders...or else. When they went out a few years ago, before Vale, we refused to cross their line. They got a deal the next day. We will deal with them when we get back.
They made a contract with our Gov't and the details are being kept secret. All we know of the contract is the promise of no layoffs for 3 years and that the sale of Inco to them must result in a net benefit to Canada. So far all we have seen are layoffs with no net benefit. _________________ Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
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66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
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UZI Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002 Posts: 13335 Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:57 am Post subject: |
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i'm sure you're a decent guy and we share an interest in VWs but when it comes to this, you're not getting any sympathy from me.
a buddy of mine here in philly is a roofer. he's a great guy, intelligent, hard working, up on all the latest technology, self employed, owns his own company that employs 5 or 6 guys. he shows up on a job the other day that is "half union, half not". the first thing the union guys do is start piling equipment right when he needs to set up. then they start leaning ladders against the building right where he needs to go up. this goes on all day long and he gets nothing done that day. obviously the union guys didn't either, they were too busy getting in his way. the next day he gets handed a safety violation notice from OSHA and gets fined $20,000.
fuck the unions and fuck the snakes and snitches that work for them. _________________ Extravagant Lifestyle
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mannys66: South Philly Van Club, only the most influential and freshest van club in the vw scene |
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Cuñado: Chrome will get you home!!!!!!!!!! |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: |
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UZI wrote: |
i'm sure you're a decent guy and we share an interest in VWs but when it comes to this, you're not getting any sympathy from me.
a buddy of mine here in philly is a roofer. he's a great guy, intelligent, hard working, up on all the latest technology, self employed, owns his own company that employs 5 or 6 guys. he shows up on a job the other day that is "half union, half not". the first thing the union guys do is start piling equipment right when he needs to set up. then they start leaning ladders against the building right where he needs to go up. this goes on all day long and he gets nothing done that day. obviously the union guys didn't either, they were too busy getting in his way. the next day he gets handed a safety violation notice from OSHA and gets fined $20,000.
fuck the unions and fuck the snakes and snitches that work for them. |
That kinda shit gives unions a bad name.The union should have forced the developer to provide a separate gate and work area for the roofer.Once again some idiots pick the wrong target,the non union contractor should be shown the benefits of becoming a union contractor,not be harassed.
The operating engineers offer signatory contractors the highest skilled workforce available,just a phone call away.They deal with employee issues in most cases so the contractor doesnt have too. As union members we realize we cant price ourselves out of the market but use collective bargaining to secure the highest wage.In my 20 plus years I have never participated in an action against a union contractor or harassed a non union contractor.....Id join ya in sack punting those fucks who cost your friend money... |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Member in Sudbury Ontario Canada needs your help |
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dan macmillan wrote: |
coad wrote: |
dan macmillan wrote: |
I am a member of USW Local 6500.
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I've been reading about your situation for an hour or so, and I have one question:
Is this true?
Quote: |
To enforce its will, Vale has been gradually ramping up production in Sudbury using scores of contractors and so-called replacement workers, managers, and 56 skilled members from USW Local 2020 which organizes 240 office, technical and professional workers at the complex.
In October, Vale used managerial personnel and the non-striking Local 2020 workers to restart minimal mine and copper concentrate mill operations in Sudbury. |
Is that for real? These Scabs you're complaining about are members of your own Union? And they're doing it with the blessing of their Local and the National?
Dude, I'm pro-union, but if you're walking a picket line and your own Brothers are crossing it to Scab then you're in the middle of some seriously twisted nonsense up there. |
THis is true. Before the strike began, Vale came in and after promising no layoffs in a SECRET deal with our Gov't, cleaned house with the staff members. Local 2020 are steelworkers but they are not crossing with the blessing of USW. They are crossing in fear of getting terminated. The company has given them orders...or else. When they went out a few years ago, before Vale, we refused to cross their line. They got a deal the next day. We will deal with them when we get back.
They made a contract with our Gov't and the details are being kept secret. All we know of the contract is the promise of no layoffs for 3 years and that the sale of Inco to them must result in a net benefit to Canada. So far all we have seen are layoffs with no net benefit. |
Solidarity is the only strength a union has...your union brothers crossing the line are weak and are empowering the company...your "dealing"with them when you get back is a fantasy...you aint coming back,your own people broke your lines. In a captured enviroment like a mine solidarity is your best defense against owner manipulation...you have to be able to walk and shut him down in a moment.Thats everybody,regardless of the car payment or the kids braces. |
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69 Jim Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2004 Posts: 6265 Location: Chickengeorge's Neighbor
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by 69 Jim on Fri May 14, 2010 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr. Unpopular Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3715 Location: Tampa Florida
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I know right! He makes more than twice what I make and he's bitching about unfair wages.
Its amazing that people can have the view that everyone should be paid the same, regardless of their education and job skills. _________________ "In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV |
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coad Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7552
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Florida_Buggy wrote: |
I know right! He makes more than twice what I make and he's bitching about unfair wages.
Its amazing that people can have the view that everyone should be paid the same, regardless of their education and job skills. |
Sounds like you're the one bitching because he makes more than you do.
Let's see, $29/hour X a 40 hour week is $1,160 a week or $60,000 per year. After taxes he's probably taking home $40,000 or so (that's probably high because Canadian taxes are much higher than US taxes), and that's in Canadian Dollars which are still worth a little less than the US Dollar, so that's about $38,000 US for working in a mine.
That's too much? Really? You're going to hate on a guy because he makes $38,000 for working in one of the most dangerous occupations there is?
Wow. |
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Mr. Unpopular Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3715 Location: Tampa Florida
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: |
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coad wrote: |
Florida_Buggy wrote: |
I know right! He makes more than twice what I make and he's bitching about unfair wages.
Its amazing that people can have the view that everyone should be paid the same, regardless of their education and job skills. |
Sounds like you're the one bitching because he makes more than you do.
Let's see, $29/hour X a 40 hour week is $1,160 a week or $60,000 per year. After taxes he's probably taking home $40,000 or so (that's probably high because Canadian taxes are much higher than US taxes), and that's in Canadian Dollars which are still worth a little less than the US Dollar, so that's about $38,000 US for working in a mine.
That's too much? Really? You're going to hate on a guy because he makes $38,000 for working in one of the most dangerous occupations there is?
Wow. |
HAHA boy are YOU off base. Read through my posts. I'm anti-union and pro free market.
I just think it's funny he's bitching about unfair wages and makes twice as much as me. Good for him! And good for anyone else that makes more money than me. If I want a better paying job, I'll look for one. If I can't find one, I'll go to school for a more marketable skill.
I have made much more at previous jobs, but this one is 2 miles from home and I like what I do, so I'm happy where I'm at.
I don't hate anyone because they make more money, I figure they are either lucky, or better at what they do. What i won't do is sit on my ass and complain while waiting for someone to "make it equal". _________________ "In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV |
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EdW Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Unemployment Office
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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johnnypan wrote: |
The union should have forced the developer to provide a separate gate and work area for the roofer. |
Don't forget, the roofer should have his own separate drinking fountain too. _________________ 20‰
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I would call him a dick, but a dick has a head on it |
Last edited by bljones on Today 4:20am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Sage Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2005 Posts: 2470 Location: Traverse City
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Unions in Canada have a different level of respect than in the US. I am friend's with a union mediator from London Ont, and I suspect that Dan here is surprised to hear about the bullshit that goes on in the US with the unions. Union workers are largely honest and hard working in Canada.
That being said, after many debates about this issue; the reasons why Union were founded was to protect people against real abuse. Since the goal was accomplished, and the government has created standard work weeks, minimum wage and age regulation as well as safety concerns are addressed, there really is no reason for unions in modern Canada. Protecting your quality of life isn't enough these days to get a society largely makes much less than you are to rally behind you. _________________ Feel My Pain l Sage Ad World |
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drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'll support the unions when they realize it's in their best interest for the COMPANY to be financially healthy. _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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dan macmillan Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003 Posts: 3110 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a sample of what others have to say
[link]http://www.icem.org/en/77-All-ICEM-News-Releases/3774-ICEM-Commends-Liberian-Affiliate-for-Opposing-Vale-Investment[/link]
The International Federation of Chemical, Energy, Mine, and General Workers’ Union (ICEM), the dominant global trade union federation for the mining industry, endorses a letter by its Liberian union affiliate to President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf protesting proposed rail passage through the West African nation by Brazilian-based Vale SA.
Recently, Vale purchased a 51% stake from BSG Resources of iron ore blocks near Simandou in eastern Guinea. The mining house intends to create a rail and logistics corridor from Guinea through Liberia to the Atlantic Ocean coast.
In the letter, dated 13 May, the Forestry, Logging, and Industry Workers of Liberia (FLIWUL) calls on President Johnson-Sirleaf to fully examine Vale’s global social record before her government grants the rail concession. Among several irresponsible social acts, Vale has a forced a bitter strike – now in its eleventh month – on 3,500 nickel and copper miners in Canada.
“We are aware of many serious issues surrounding Vale and its mistreatment of workers and communities where it operates around the world,” writes FLIWUL Secretary-General David D. Sackoh.
“Organizations in Mozambique, Brazil, Canada, Peru, Chile, Germany, Italy, and New Caledonia have declared that Vale ‘infringes human rights, exploits both male and female workers, imposes precarious working conditions, destroys nature and disrespects traditional communities.’ It appears that every place where Vale operates, communities are displaced, the environment is harmed and workers’ rights are not respected.
“We are disturbed at the treatment that Vale has given to its workforce in Canada. The company provoked a strike through its demands for deep concessions from its workers despite the fact that the company has made billions of dollars in profit in recent years.
“Madame President, following many years of civil war and turmoil the Liberian people finally enjoy peace and has a promising future under your leadership. This behemoth Vale with its suspect actions could potentially destroy our fragile economy for the benefit of a greedy few. As key stakeholder in the infrastructural and economic development of Liberia, FLIWUL wishes to urge the government to carefully study the situation and ensure that transitional companies investing in Liberia do so responsibly.”
ICEM General Secretary Manfred Warda soundly endorsed the letter, and said the Geneva-based federation will also raise Vale’s investment in Guinea with trade unions there, and with the government of Guinea. “We cannot accede to Vale’s investment agenda anywhere while the company brings pain and suffering on workers,” said Warda. “The atrocities that Vale is inflicting on people and their communities in Ontario and Labrador in Canada must stop and we give sound warning that we will follow this mining company everywhere and repeat FLIWUL’s message.”
The ICEM is a global union federation consisting of 467 trade unions in 132 countries, and represents 20 million workers worldwide. _________________ Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
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Emeritusx Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2008 Posts: 2775 Location: 12 inches behind the wheel
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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TLDR... my a-d-d kicked in about 1/4 way thru... summarize, your talkin to a 'merican _________________ 82 Westy ☢, 66 Splitty ☮, 73 Type 181 ✠ |
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notchback Insensitive Jerk
Joined: December 16, 2003 Posts: 7024 Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Emeritusx wrote: |
TLDR... my a-d-d kicked in about 1/4 way thru... summarize, your talkin to a 'merican |
He's saying another union is for his union and against the company. That's all. _________________
zeen wrote: |
Arguing with johnnypan is like mud-wrestling a pig. After a while you realize he just enjoys playing in the mud, winning the contest is not the point. |
FU#3 |
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Emeritusx Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2008 Posts: 2775 Location: 12 inches behind the wheel
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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notchback wrote: |
Emeritusx wrote: |
TLDR... my a-d-d kicked in about 1/4 way thru... summarize, your talkin to a 'merican |
He's saying another union is for his union and against the company. That's all. |
I like the way you said it better... _________________ 82 Westy ☢, 66 Splitty ☮, 73 Type 181 ✠ |
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dan macmillan Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003 Posts: 3110 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I am saying that many people are against the practices of this company. Unfortunately most of the non unionized people cannot or will not stand up to a giant corporation that is damaging people and our environment. It will take unions to have any effect. They have so much money that they do what they want.
Our battle goes far beyond asking for a fair contract.
Right here in Canada
http://www.dailybusinessbuzz.ca/2010/03/24/nl-vale-inco-leaving-“toxic-legacy”-claims-alliance/
vale-inco-leaving-“toxic-legacy"
[SANDY POND, NL] — A newly formed group, the Sandy Pond Alliance, announced on Monday, March 22, that it plans to launch a legal challenge to what it terms a loophole in the Fisheries Act that allows Vale Inco to use Sandy Pond as a toxic waste dumpsite.
The Sandy Pond Alliance includes members of the Natural History Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mining Watch Canada, The Council of Canadians, Sierra Club of Canada and a number of residents of this province who are concerned about the destruction of the pond.
Vale Inco has received federal and provincial approval to destroy Sandy Pond by dumping toxic mining waste in it from their nickel processing plant, which they plan to build in the community.
“This change in the Fisheries Act condones the practice of using lakes as dumpsites, destroying watersheds at a time when the world’s water resources are getting scarce,” Fred Winsor of the Sierra Club, a Sandy Pond Alliance member, said in a press release. “It leaves a toxic legacy for future generations.”
According to the press release, lakes that would normally be protected as fish habitat by the Fisheries Act are now being redefined as “tailings impoundment areas” according to a 2002 “schedule” added to the Metal Mining Effluent Regulations of the Act. Once added to Schedule 2, healthy freshwater lakes lose all protection and become dump sites for mining waste. There are currently several lakes across the country at risk of destruction because of this loophole in the Fisheries Act.
Althougth it is called Sandy Pond it is in fact a a 30-hectare freshwater lake.
Acid leak kills thousands of fish in world heritage status lagoon in New Caledonia
http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=45767
Posted at 23:19 on 05 April, 2009 UTC
There has been a major acid leak at New Caledonia’s new Vale-Inco nickel plant into waterways while tests were being conducted at the new plant.
Thousands of litres of acid were spilled during incident which has killed nearly 2,000 fish.
The company had run the test although the system to contain a possible spillage was not yet operational.
The provincial government has strongly criticised Vale-Inco, with the WWF environmental organisation calling for the operating licence for Vale-Inco to be withdrawn.
The plant, which cost billions of dollars to build, is set to be inaugurated in the middle of this year.
Its construction was accompanied by delays and controversy as it is in an area of the New Caledonian lagoon which last year was awarded world heritage status.
It happened a second time.
Acid spill in Goro hampers commissioning work
Apr 27, 2010
By: Sudbury Northern Life Staff
http://www.northernlife.ca/news/localNews/2010/04/goro-270410.aspx
Vale has partially halted commissioning work at its already delayed Goro nickel operation in New Caledonia following an acid spill, according to media reports.
Vale Inco spokesman Cory McPhee reportedly told the Reuters news agency that the company was investigating the spill of 690 cubic metres of acid-containing solution. He said the spill had been "contained," and had caused no injuries or damage to the external environment.
The project, which is expected to eventually produce 60,000 tonnes of nickel a year, has been repeatedly delayed over the past 18 months. Part of that delay was due to a smaller acid spill a year ago which made it into the outside environment.
The company said last week that it was getting closer to production, but had been delayed due to "hiccups" in the commissioning.
McPhee declined to speculate on how the spill might impact the timeline.
"It's too early for us to speculate on that," he told Reuters.
"This just happened. We just want to make sure we're diligent and looking at what took place so we understand why and to prevent it from happening in the future," he said.
He said commissioning had been stopped in the extraction unit where the spill occurred, but was continuing elsewhere.
The $4.3 billion project, located in the French island territory of New Caledonia in the South Pacific, has been closely watched as it is one of a new breed of large nickel laterite mines that are expected to account for a growing proportion of global nickel supply.
Just look at what is happening with BP and the oil disaster in the US.
No one will take the blame and responsibility of what happened. Eventually, the little guy {each and every one of us} will end up paying for the damage to equipment and environment, through price increases, instead of the cost coming out of the corporations profits. Just look at what happened when Hurricane Katrina took out a few oil drills and refineries. Who paid for the companies losses. Certainly not the company.
People have to start standing up to these major corporations.
Remember the saying United we stand Divided we fall. _________________ Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone
Last edited by dan macmillan on Sat May 15, 2010 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coad Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7552
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: |
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I hate to say this, but I think the old line about how "if you can't look around the poker table and spot the fool, it's probably you" really applies to your situation.
Let's be honest. There was a backroom deal between Vale, the Government, and, yes, your Union that was made to keep the mine open, and throwing your local under the bus was part of it.
Hell, it was probably worth it. Everybody's gonna do real well--the Government gets its tax revenue, Vale makes a profit, the Union keeps it's membership (most of it anyway), and the money just keeps rolling in.
At this point who is on your side? Even the guy in the Convenience Store down the road where you strikers get your coffee and donuts can count, and he did the math that said it's better for his business to have the mine open three years ago. You don't have any friends left. Anyone who was on your side has been bought and paid for long ago.
I think you're fucked. If you can still crawl back to the table and sign a deal you better put on your knee pads and start crawling, because I don't see how your situation is going to improve.
And that's coming from someone that has sympathy for you. |
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The Sage Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2005 Posts: 2470 Location: Traverse City
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Here is a reply from one of your union leaders in Ontario
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The United Steelworkers and INCO mines enjoyed an excellent working relationship for more than 6o years. Then INCO was bought out by a Brazilian Company, Vale. Vale's agenda has been all about attacking the workers and gutting the collective agreement. They are demanding deep concessions in benefits and pensions. Our members have been on strike for more than ten months and will stay out as long as it takes. In our Union we always say "one day longer", meaning we will last one day longer than the Company will.
In 38 years I was never on strike, not even for one day. |
It seems like the union is asking you to prove a point for them... _________________ Feel My Pain l Sage Ad World |
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Emeritusx Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2008 Posts: 2775 Location: 12 inches behind the wheel
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Shiat... A few fish? We are killing the whole damn gulf of mexico.... At least the Brits any how.... (BP)... The nation is 1/2 under water and this is a good year... Markets down, crime and poverty up, I went to see a friend in Detroit (I spent the early 80's there) so sad... Its like saying you have a pimple to a guy who's drowning... No one cares because our care sensors are on overload... _________________ 82 Westy ☢, 66 Splitty ☮, 73 Type 181 ✠ |
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coad Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7552
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Emeritusx wrote: |
SAt least the Brits any how.... (BP)... |
How about Haliburton? Headquarted in Dubai. or Transocean? Headquartered in Switzerland.
You want to go after Illegal Aliens? Start at the stop. |
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