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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject: Running Hot? |
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Ok,
I have been reading the forums for the last few days on heat issues. And now need some reassurance.
I have a new to me 1971 1600dp svda... had trouble with the vacuum retard, so disconnected (plugged the carb, not the canister), timed to 7.5 BDTC.
While I have been making adjustments, I will periodically drive for 10 - 20 minutes, stop and then check things out.
I have a oil temp sensor (PO installed). It never hits 210. Normally runs 180 or cooler.
I have also been checking the rear engine tin, and the oil dipstick. When I was having trouble initially, it was hot hot. Then I thought I had come to some conclusions making it seem much cooler.
Now, I went for a drive, checked it out, and the whole thing seemed really hot. Even the dipstick handle was hot. The oil temp gauge didn't read high... but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
So, basically I am wondering if type 2's get this hot normally... because I really don't know to be honest. Now I am just second guessing myself over and over. And also, what would you advise me to do to attempt to remedy the problem.
I am considering:
-Double check the engine fan for debris.
-Retard the timing slightly?
-Richen the idle mixture?
-Check for any possibility of vacuum leaks...
Any input would be greatly appreciated. _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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RocketRod Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2007 Posts: 641 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Do those things you are considering. No exhaust leaks? Is the dipstick to hot to hold? How about using a infrared temp gun. Stop by a local garage and ask if they have one and will check you temp for you. An ACVW will heat soak a bit after a run. _________________ Why Yes it is a Magic bus!
Common Sense isn't so common. |
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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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No exhaust leaks. The lower part of the dipstick is too hot to hold. The handle is quite hot, but can still manage to hold it. _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:30 am Post subject: |
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Is all of the tin work there? Engine to body seal good? Have you tried setting the timing to 28º at about 3500 RPMs?
Where is the oil temp sender mounted at? |
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Jody '71 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2842 Location: Manassas VA
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Your '71 SHOULD have the all important one year only front firewall tin piece. Take some pictures of the engine compartment for us to see. _________________ '66 Beetle
2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring |
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ned Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1574 Location: Arroyo Grande Ca.
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
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34 pict 3? I would also check those jets. Be sure thay are not beetle sized. |
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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
Is all of the tin work there? Engine to body seal good? Have you tried setting the timing to 28º at about 3500 RPMs?
Where is the oil temp sender mounted at? |
All of the tin is there. Engine to body seal needs to be replaced. I have one, but I am almost worried about it becoming disfigured or something because of the heat around the engine tin. Any tips on installing the seal on a type 2? I've been looking around but can't find anything. I have only ever installed a type 4 seal.
I will go through the tune up procedures and do a double check, take a few pictures and get back to you guys.
Thanks. _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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It sort of gets to a choice. Seal melting or engine melting. Ok, which seal? Horizontal sides and rear or the vertical front? Putting them in depend on how damaged, bent up and cruddy dirty the seal channels are. If everything is wonderfully clean and nice the worst is that you would have to remove the rear apron. But if it all has been neglected in the past you might have to pull the engine and do a lot of cleanup and straightening of the channels. Busses require some serious work. Some install the double flap rear seal rear seal with one flap above and one flap below the rear tin. I put them both under. Also that seal you want to cut into 3 lengths. One to fit around the apron and 2 to go on the body sides. No gap where they join. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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maximan1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2008 Posts: 1354 Location: Anaheim, California
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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How long to you wait to touch the dipstick or engine after ending your drive? If you wait a few minutes, the heat that was being pushed out with the cooling air stops getting pushed out and the heat rises and the engine heats up. It's called heat soak. _________________ 1978 Transporter, 2.0L FI |
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sped372 Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2006 Posts: 653 Location: Waunakee, WI
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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VWest77 wrote: |
No exhaust leaks. The lower part of the dipstick is too hot to hold. The handle is quite hot, but can still manage to hold it. |
If you can hold the handle you're probably ok. Keep a close eye on it but you may just not be used to what "normal" is. The dipstick handle test isn't exact but many will tell you that if you can hold it a few seconds not to worry. _________________ 1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX |
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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so if I can hold the handle, I should be alright? You are probably right, I am just not used to what normal is... but it sure does seem hot (the rear apron/oil dipstick.) The apron should get really hot with the exhaust I suppose... and If you say as long as I can hold the dipstick handle I should be alright. _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51155 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes the apron and rear tin do get hot, they are right over the muffler. The key here is do your testing immediately when you come to a stop, if it sits anytime heat soaks up into places that aren't that hot when it's driving. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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sped372 Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2006 Posts: 653 Location: Waunakee, WI
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
Have you tried setting the timing to 28º at about 3500 RPMs? |
This is good advice. Make sure you at least check to see what your timing advances to when you bring the RPMs up, maybe something is wonky in the distributor. Remove the vacuum hose(s) so that you only see the effects of the centrifugal advance. _________________ 1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76947 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Running Hot? |
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VWest77 wrote: |
I have a oil temp sensor (PO installed). It never hits 210. Normally runs 180 or cooler. |
Do you know if it is accurate? Mine reads 40 degrees higher than it actually is. I verified that with a Raytek infrared thermometer and a Pyrex calibrated deep fry thermometer.
Now I know for sure that my engine is running at the correct temps. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: |
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sped372 wrote: |
Randy in Maine wrote: |
Have you tried setting the timing to 28º at about 3500 RPMs? |
This is good advice. Make sure you at least check to see what your timing advances to when you bring the RPMs up, maybe something is wonky in the distributor. Remove the vacuum hose(s) so that you only see the effects of the centrifugal advance. |
I have checked the maximum advance with the timing light before. I found it really hard because at the higher rpms the light seemed to lose it. I could see where the maximum advance was (barely)... but I always did it with the hoses on... and to 30-32 degrees. You're saying to take the vacuum hoses off and time the maximum advance to 28 degrees? _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Remove the hoses and time it when all of the centrifical advance it has in all in (which whould be around 3500 or so) and make that to be about 28-30º BTDC. Tighten it down. Put the hoses back on.
Let it loaf back to idle and set the idle speed. Note the initial timing at idle but don't change it. Go for a ride and see how it does. |
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ned Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1574 Location: Arroyo Grande Ca.
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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If it still runs hot you just might want to check your Jetting. |
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Jody '71 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2842 Location: Manassas VA
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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You never mentioned what carb is on there; if so, original German Solex 34-3 jetted for Bus??? You imply that you have the original DVDA distributor with the retard port plugged. Is the retard port plugged on the carb? Are you using the '71 only oil bath air filter? That may not make a difference(different year models can be made to work), unless you are using an aftermarket air filter. That may not make a difference either with your high engine temps. Others may disagree.
You also say your timing light whacks out at high rpms. Is the gun faulty, or is your distributor scattering the timing mark so bad that you can't see it??? If you have timing mark scatter, you better consider the condition of the distributor. _________________ '66 Beetle
2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring |
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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Jody '71 wrote: |
You never mentioned what carb is on there; if so, original German Solex 34-3 jetted for Bus??? You imply that you have the original DVDA distributor with the retard port plugged. Is the retard port plugged on the carb? Are you using the '71 only oil bath air filter? That may not make a difference(different year models can be made to work), unless you are using an aftermarket air filter. That may not make a difference either with your high engine temps. Others may disagree.
You also say your timing light whacks out at high rpms. Is the gun faulty, or is your distributor scattering the timing mark so bad that you can't see it??? If you have timing mark scatter, you better consider the condition of the distributor. |
I'm just going to work on it right now.
The carb is a Solex h30/31 (I know a lot of you don't like that). The retard port is plugged at carb (not at vacuum can). Using the oil bath air cleaner.
I will let you know how things go. _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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VWest77 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Took off the vacuum hose, plugged it, timed maximum centrifugal advance to 28-30 degrees. (I needed to retard my timing a little.)
Just going to run some errands with the bus... so we'll see how it goes. _________________ 1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab |
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