Engine dimensions etc for conversion comparisons into Syncro

[SyncroGhia]

[ThorAlex]

How about a ford v6 2.9? 145hk @ 4500 rpm, 222Nm @ 3000rpm, not the most powerful but a pretty sturdy engine i think, and less electronics to mess with than a lot of other options. Should be a good fit in a Doka.
_________________
1990 syncro 1.6TD "Smily"

Ex-vans:
1990 Caravelle coach 1.6TD
1986 Transporter Double cab syncro 2.1 112hp

"I'm wrong so often... It's great!" - Adam Savage

[SyncroGhia]

I'm not sure about the Ford V6, is it an iron block or ally? Weight is really important here.

Anymore info on other engine weights?

Also does anyone have a stock syncro td which they could measure from the crank pulley to the rear cross member for me please?

MG
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[WLD*WSTY]

You can use the Subaru 2.5 Phase 2, with a shortened pan. Shortened pans are used by the sandrail crowd, on engines producing much more HP than stock, without problems. Small Car makes a cast aluminum pan that contains the same amount as a stock pan.

Larry H.

[VR6 vanagon]

why doesn't anybody ever consider the vr6 as a choice for their swap?

[beelzibus]

Interesting thread Mike, can't believe I didn't see it before.
As you probably know I run a 2.5 quad cam in my Syncro Westy as a daily, based around Richards parts mainly, I'm also in the process of doing a 200oMY 2.5 SOHC conversion into a 2WD T3 as well, my wife runs an A6 Quattro Avant fitted with the ACK 2.8 as a daily, plus I've done an engine replacement in that, with a later APR 30V V6, and very recently broke an A4 with an ACK in it. I also get involved with various VAG TDI motors at work, right from the 1Z/AHU lumps, through AFN era motors, early PDs and now the later 2.0litre PDs. Having real world knowledge of much of the stuff that you've been discussing, perhaps it's time to reawaken an old friendship? I'll leave it up to you, PM me if you want some contact details. Cheers Andy Fleet.

[axeman]

just my thoughts but it may be worth looking at a volvo b23/b230 engine, they are super strong and came in several power ranges, from 90bhp through to 180ish in high preasure turbo from. the early ones are carbed then the went through to jet tronic fuel injection then a full blow electric injection, a lpt and the hpt should reyurn the sort of mpg that your asking, well some friend and i drove 2 of them to norway they weigh about the same as a synco sika and we maintained around the 450mile mark per tank which was about 60l crusing on the motor ways at 70, with the exception of a blast on the autoban as we had a ferry to catch, running up to 100mph for about an hour or so.

the only thing that i could see as a problem would be a altinator as it sits quite low but this could easerly be relocated to a higher levle be making a new bracket fro it and sourcing a longer alt belt. cirtianly the convershion that i like the look of, having said all that the 1.8turbo dose look nice too.
_________________
1957, 1200cc 30hp, big window, delux beetle, swedish modle, now living in france
1991 holdsworth villa 3, 2.1, uk van, now sold
1991 syncro doka uk van was 2.1 now B230, out with the b230 and in with a 1.8 20v, and 4 doors
1987 syncro westy was 1.6 jx now ej22

[SyncroGhia]

Thanks for the info guys.

Andy, long time no chat.. Will PM you and we'll have to catch up

Neil,
I don't know anything about Volvo engines. I'm guessing that with no relations to VW/Audi it's using an adaptor plate and then make everything else up to suit. I'll have a look around the internet for more info.

VR6? yes it's an option but for my needs, too heavy and too long. It's a nice engine and in 2.9 and 32V forum.. goes really well.

I've been looking at the Smallcar Sump in much detail http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365697&highlight=smallcar

I've recently got hold of some engine measurements for the Audi V8 and although I'm not looking to use this engine, I know how much room was around it when I installed (just test installation) one in the back of my Single Cab Syncro.

Audi V8 Engine
Height 25"
Width 30.5"
Length 20"

If anyone has the same dimensions of engines sitting around in their workshops, they would be really helpful.

Thanks again

MG
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T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
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[SyncroGhia]

Ok I've just been over to see a mate who has an Audi 2.8 12V motor which we pulled out of an Audi 100 Quattro.

I took some photos and measurements while I was over there for comparrisons.

Audi 2.8 12V AAH engine (174bhp, 184ftlbs)

Height I forgot as I'm a muppet!
Width 27"
Length 17.25" (440mm) (suprised how short it is!)
Intake sticks out the back about 5" with the factory fittings and 3" without the airbox on but that's to the throttle body face.
Centreline of crank to base of sump 7" (178mm)

I'll take some measurements of the Legacy TT engine I have at the weekend before it goes to it's new owner.

MG
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[SyncroGhia]

More info....

Have just been onto the phone to RJES for some technical info (very helpful chap )

The standard Subaru engine is:

Length 415mm (16.34")
Width Not concerned about as I know it'll fit!
Height: More interested in these figures below...
-Centreline of crank to bottom of case 124mm
-Bottom of case to bottom of sump (KEP/SmallCar) 108mm +- 5mm
-Bottom of case to bottom of oil filter (non turbo) 70mm
-Bottom of case to bottom of water outlet 56mm
-Centreline of crank to bottom of RJES engine mount bar 212mm

Photo taken by B4Tfink from VWKD forum.

Having looked at an overhead photo I took of the JX (1600 TD) engine which was originally in my Bluestar, it's very obvious that any inline 4 cylinder engine from VW/Audi isn't going to enable me to shorten the back of the van very much if at all so I'm concentrating on 4 engines from now on...

The Subaru 2.5 SOHC (EJ25) from 2000-2002, the Subaru H6 3.0 (EZ30) Flat 6 built from 2000-2003, the Audi 2.8 12V (AAH) built from 1990-1997 and the Audi 2.8 30V (ACK) built from 1995-1999.
Specs on these engines are:

Subaru EJ251
165bhp @ 5,600rpm
167 ftlbs @ 4,000rpm

Subaru EZ30D
216bhp @ 6,000rpm
213ftlbs @ 4400rpm

Audi AAH
174bhp @ 5,500rpm
184ftlbs @ 3,000rpm

Audi ACK
190bhp @ 6,000rpm
207ftlbs @ 3,200rpm

I could really do with finding some power/torque graphs of these engines on the dyno so I can see where the power really starts and stops. I don't want to have to rev the engine up to 3,000rpm to get going...

Engine lengths
Audi = 440mm
EJ25 = 414mm
EZ30 = (estimated 445mm... not easy to find one to measure but have info from subaru chaps).

The wasserboxer engine is 380mm from mounting face to crank pulley outer face (that's the single pulley) just for reference.

Engine crank centre to lowest point
Audi = 180mm
EJ25/EZ30 = 232mm (as close I can work out using a wet sump)
I could go to dry sumping but the cost goes up and I don't like the idea of a toothed belt running outside of covers etc when offroading in mud!!. I could build covers etc but more and more and more stuff to do.

MG
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[SyncroGhia]

Pros and Cons from what I can make of them:

Audi engines:

2.8 AAH
Pros:- Cheap, available, enough hp and torque

Cons:- Not as short as the Subaru engine and I have to make up everything apart from the Bellhousing. The intake to the engine will be very close to the petrol tank... poss an interference fit.

2.8 ACK
Pros:- Cheapish, available, enough hp and torque

Cons:- Not sure if this engine is a revvy engine with it being a multivalve setup, more wiring (immobiliser but nothing I can't get around), again I have to make up everything apart from the bellhousing and the same intake interference to tank issue.

Subaru engines

EJ251
Pros:- Probably the best Subaru flat 4 for power and reliability. Readily avaible while not costing the earth.
Very short! Is likely to outlast the van

Cons:- Not as cheap as Audi engines, SUMP!!!

EZ30
Pros:- Power and sound

Cons:- SUMP!!! and they're not cheap and don't grow on trees.

Hmmmm...


MG
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[SyncroGhia]

Update on more measurements...

Having realised that the RJES bellhousing is actually shorter than the stock petrol and smallcar bellhousings I figured I'd go and measure the South African bellhousing depth.

The South African bellhousing (134mm) is 10mm deeper than the petrol bellhousing (124mm)... the TD bellhousing is 143mm deep.

Hmmm... I was leaning toward to the Audi engine but that pushes it further back than the H6 motor...

MG
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[ALIKA T3]

Hello!!

I'm thinking diesel also for going in the water.


I would go the TDI-m way for removing all the bad electronic stuff.

Since you want some juice,and scared of blowing out a 4 inline diesel (that could happen with a 1.9 TDI-M @ 160hp ) I would go the 5 cylinder inline way,because you have the belhousing.

You can make a mechanical pump,it has been done already.

"Easy",reliable,affordable. And you can run with veggie oil

[SyncroGhia]

That's sounding like huge amounts of work!!

I've pretty much given up on TDi's and 4 or 5 cylinder inline engines.

This project is all about offroad ability. I can water proof a petrol engine without too much trouble and wiring/ECU/Immobilisers don't put me off.

MTDi pumps? I've never been inside a diesel pump and have no intention of doing so... why throw away all the hard work/money that VW/Audi have spent in testing with a home brewed trial which will never give the same power/economy/reliability as a factory item.. which can be replaced easily if it goes wrong? I could buy a pump... but then the only person I could turn to if it went wrong would be that same person rather than plug in and look up the fault.

The other reason I've given up on TDis is that they have a limited rev range. In order to be able to drive at 70mph (I'm not talking comfort here... just the ability to do 70mph) I'd have to build the gearbox with high final drive ratios... which are useless for serious offroad trailing. I've tried several times with Limey and the project is going to be on bigger tyres than it has currently.

The Subaru 2.5 is looking good atm but I'm still stuck on the sump problem. I'm still tempted by the idea of just raising the engine a bit but in the process I lose some of the CV joint angle.

MG
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[westyventures]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the problems with continuing to run the manual or electronic diesels--red herring issues. If you don't like the stock power output, they can easily be bumped to suit your needs with chips, larger pump elements, bigger turbos, propane, etc. Personally, my engine swap list would ordered as follows:

1.) VW turbodiesel (manual/electronic, whatever)
2.) Audi 1.8T
3.) Audi 2.8 (I currently own two of these--see sig)

If I had my druthers, I'd extend the rear and swap in a Mercedes 2.5L OM602 fiver, easily tweaked to 350hp. I'm a diesel believer
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Alaric.H]

In a couple of years the subaru diesel engine should be cheaper.

[westyventures]

[Alaric.H]

Well Mike is in the UK and they have been there for a few years all ready.
As far as fit and finish how the hell would I know.

[westyventures]