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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: more turbo diesel help |
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well, i thought i had it. i thought that my custom LH engine bracket was the problem and i swapped it out for the greaseworks model. my clearance issues improved, but did not completely go away . i still have the problem of my wastegate actuator hitting the bracket right above the engine mount. here are pics
what else should i be looking for? others seem to be able to bolt the k14 right up. i've tried everything i can think of and am in search of some new ideas!
thanks! _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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The k14 will only "bolt right up" if the quantum/vanagon exhaust manifold is used. That setup is a different can of worms, tho.
Do you still have the stock driver's side aluminum bracket? In your last thread I showed you what I consider the easiest solution. |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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No, I don't have the aluminum mount anymore. My buddy "accidentally" destroyed it. I just shimmer the top two bolts of the DS bracket to rotate the engine a little more to the passenger side. I'll bolt up the manifold and try to mount the turbo again when I get back to the house. _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to hear your thoughts on the quantum/vanagon ex manifold, though. you seem to have some strong feelings against it. _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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Witless Joe Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 460
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Is it possible to disconnect the wastegate actuator can from its bracket, and just temporarily move that can aside for a test drive, not connecting the vacuum hose to it? I've never seen a K14, and I can't tell from the photo.
IIRC, your main problem is that you don't build any significant boost. Temporarily deleting the wastegate would let you test drive and see if the K14 solves that fundamental problem.
You're not likely to do any damage, even if you get a boost spike of 15 psi or more (which IIRC, is sort of what you're looking for anyway). Then you'd know whether it was even worth your while continuing to fight with this install. |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really against it, but prefer the jetta manifold. There isn't much drop for oil drainage, you'd need the TD vanagon oil return line, the quantum/vanagon supply line, getting the turbo properly clocked is difficult, the compressor inlet is right up next to the aluminum bracket and so intake routing is difficult. You would likely not have that last issue if you kept the greaseworks bracket. |
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tozovr Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009 Posts: 547 Location: York, ME
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Just an observation but seems to me you keep creating more work for yourself when you never really qualified what the issue with the T3 was. Keep throwing parts at it I guess. Did you ever qualify what Injection pump you were running? You do not have the LDA enrichment right? _________________ ...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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tozovr wrote: |
Just an observation but seems to me you keep creating more work for yourself when you never really qualified what the issue with the T3 was. Keep throwing parts at it I guess. Did you ever qualify what Injection pump you were running? You do not have the LDA enrichment right? |
I appreciate what you are saying, tozovr, but the main issue with the T3 was how late it spooled. i don't think a different injection pump would have change the boost pressure, nor would the pump. it makes whatever boost it makes depending on your wastegate settings. the LDA pump would allow better fueling under boost letting one use the power. boost without adequate fueling is nothing more than cleaning up the emissions.
On another note, after using washers to shim the top two bolts of the greaseworks bracket, the turbo is IN! thank goodness, as i was close to loosing my sanity. whew, that WAS close. At least at this point I can fab the exhaust and plumb in my intercooler. Oh, yeah, i still have to mod my drain line. oh well. that should be childs play in comparison to fumbling around with clocking the rotation of the engine.
Andrew, thank you so much for being an awesome guy and helping me, and so many other people. I see all of the advice you give on this forum and GTD forum. It does not go unappreciated!! _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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tozovr Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009 Posts: 547 Location: York, ME
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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jarad wrote: |
tozovr wrote: |
Just an observation but seems to me you keep creating more work for yourself when you never really qualified what the issue with the T3 was. Keep throwing parts at it I guess. Did you ever qualify what Injection pump you were running? You do not have the LDA enrichment right? |
I appreciate what you are saying, tozovr, but the main issue with the T3 was how late it spooled. i don't think a different injection pump would have change the boost pressure, nor would the pump. it makes whatever boost it makes depending on your wastegate settings. the LDA pump would allow better fueling under boost letting one use the power. boost without adequate fueling is nothing more than cleaning up the emissions.
On another note, after using washers to shim the top two bolts of the greaseworks bracket, the turbo is IN! thank goodness, as i was close to loosing my sanity. whew, that WAS close. At least at this point I can fab the exhaust and plumb in my intercooler. Oh, yeah, i still have to mod my drain line. oh well. that should be childs play in comparison to fumbling around with clocking the rotation of the engine.
Andrew, thank you so much for being an awesome guy and helping me, and so many other people. I see all of the advice you give on this forum and GTD forum. It does not go unappreciated!! |
What is your exhaust status? _________________ ...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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about to fab either 2.25" or 2.5". either straight pipe, or glass pack. not too sure yet. suggestions? _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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a914622 Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004 Posts: 837 Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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2.25 pipe with the flowmaster Hush 2 in stainless. Bulet proff behind the Td 1.6 _________________ 87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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POS Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2004 Posts: 285 Location: In a bus, down by the river in Boonville MO
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: Re: exhaust |
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That looks good, i might do something like that. Like andrew said about your oil drain line, that the angle is too severe for proper drainage, i'm coming up with a similar angle. if i clock the turbo any more, the wastegate is totally in the way.. has anyone ever pulled it off differently? _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
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For the oil return you should consider a banjo bolt with the correct threads to replace the pipe on the K14 and a banjo to barb fitting to connect to the return line. |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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that seems like the oil would hit a 90* right upon exit from the exhaust housing. Do you have a pic to show? I mean, i do understand what you are saying, but don't understand how that would be less restricting. _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2312 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:00 am Post subject: Proper oil drainage |
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What happens if there isn't "proper" oil draining?
Wouldn't the oil pressure just push it on out into the oil pan?
I know of one guy that's running a TDI at 50 degree without "proper" oil drainage with no problems thus far. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:27 am Post subject: |
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The seals on the shaft of the turbo are metal rings like piston rings. Because of that, they are not a positive seal and so do not have the capacity to prevent pressurized oil from escaping. Instead, oil control is dependent on oil slinging at either end of the shaft and the gravity flow of oil from the cartridge. A bigger deal than leakage, IMO, is that without proper drainage, the cartridge will gradually become clogged with carbonized oil. This will happen more quickly if the turbo gets hot and then the engine is shut down without letting it idle down. Under that condition, the turbine housing will be above the temperature of burning the oil and the flow of fresh oil will be stopped. Whatever oil is sitting in the cartridge unable to drain will cook.
I don't have any picture, but a banjo fitting would still allow the oil to drain from the cartridge. It would be easy to clock the center cartridge a couple of degrees and offset the banjo fitting in order to assist the drainage, but it would occur regardless provided the hose itself didn't make any uphill run from the fitting. |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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ok, so i'm getting closer. turbo and inercooler are on and plumbed in with a 1000cfm cooling fan. fires right up and sounds fine. issue is that it still won't spool up until later in the power band. i do not have the lda pump installed yet(for a lack of $$ to get the rebuild). as far as i have learned, that will not prevent the turbo from creating boost. i can't find any boost leaks or pre turbo exhaust leaks. I checked the wastegate before i installed the turbo, and it seemed fine as well. is there something i am overlooking? i do build a little more boost than the t3 did, but only a couple of lbs and i have to be quite wound up to see it. i feel like the turbo should spool up quicker than it is and make more boost as well. any suggestions? thanks _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Do a good half-turn to 3/4-turn in on the max fuel screw (collared screw above the stop solenoid) and then do a few full pedal runs. You'll blow a cloud of smoke off boost and you're EGTs will be dangerously high, but you'll get to see approximately how fast the turbo would spool with an LDA equipped pump. |
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jarad Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: austin, texas
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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i'll try it and report back... thanks _________________ 1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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