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badsix
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 228
Location: coos bay or.
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 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: deflector plates |
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we just had an engine built for my boys 65 bug its a 23 somthing. anyway their are no deflector plates under the cylinders and we arn't running heater box's so do we need these deflectors.  |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Re: deflector plates |
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| badsix wrote: |
| we just had an engine built for my boys 65 bug its a 23 somthing. anyway their are no deflector plates under the cylinders and we arn't running heater box's so do we need these deflectors. |
If you are talking between the cylinders and the push rod tubes then YES, you must have them. If you are talking about the "snow tin" under the push rod tubes that normally bolts to the case and the heater boxes, then no, you don't need them. |
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bugninva
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8858
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| we just had an engine built for my boys 65 bug its a 23 somthing |
i guess I could kind of agree with Roy... especially since "engine builders" feel the thermostat isn't necessary.... nah, still can't agree, better to run it than not.... Glenn can show you a picture of the proper industrial tins needed when using J-tubes.
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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you can use the square plates between the oushrod tubes and cylinders or a "super tin" that sits in the same place but brings the air all the way around the cylinders. I always liked the little square ones as I saw less wear on the pistons and also the tin under the pushods off the heater boxes to protect the pushrods from any debris on the highway.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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tattooed_pariah
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006
Posts: 2047
Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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those are also very nice, but I think the piece in question is the little piece that goes between the cylinders.. THOSE pieces are VERY important.. they keep the circulating air between the cylinders where it's needed..
the pics you posted are excellent for those of us without heter boxes, but MANY engines run without tin there just fine with no heat problems..
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-pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.) |
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vwsb74
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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what do you call those plates, what is the part number?thanks
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74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| tattooed_pariah wrote: |
| the pics you posted are excellent for those of us without heter boxes, but MANY engines run without tin there just fine with no heat problems.. |
In response to this:
| bugninva wrote: |
| Glenn can show you a picture of the proper industrial tins needed when using J-tubes. |
Many run with other tins missing and are just fine. but if you have a hi-po engine you need all the help you can get.
| badsix wrote: |
| its a 23 somthing. |
My 2180 does not need a secondary oil cooler and temps never exceed 215F.
I contribute some of that to having all the tins.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| My 2180 does not need a secondary oil cooler and temps never exceed 215F. |
yeah but you live north of the Mason Dixon line. Some of us poor folk have to put up with real heat.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My 2180 does not need a secondary oil cooler and temps never exceed 215F. |
yeah but you live north of the Mason Dixon line. Some of us poor folk have to put up with real heat. |
Tomorrow it will be 78F here. In Sacramento it will be 79F tomorrow.
1 degree 
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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bugninva
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8858
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My 2180 does not need a secondary oil cooler and temps never exceed 215F. |
yeah but you live north of the Mason Dixon line. Some of us poor folk have to put up with real heat. |
Tomorrow it will be 78F here. In Sacramento it will be 79F tomorrow.
1 degree |
Here tomorrow it will be 91F and will be 96F on sunday.... I'll rest *easy* driving my vw... even when I pin it and build the boost up... the factory cooling system does it's job very well, and not just "fine" like the folks without claim... Been there, done that, and had the problems to show it... then again, lots of folks think that it's "just how vw's are" when, really, it's just how vw are when they aren't "right"....
Glenn, not every one understands...
_________________
| [email protected] wrote: |
| With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bugninva wrote: |
| Glenn, not every one understands... |
It took me 40 years of working on VWs to understand how critical all the tins are. And if I had the Samba back then, I would of spent a lot less on broken/worn parts.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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tattooed_pariah
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006
Posts: 2047
Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| tattooed_pariah wrote: |
| the pics you posted are excellent for those of us without heter boxes, but MANY engines run without tin there just fine with no heat problems.. |
In response to this:
| bugninva wrote: |
| Glenn can show you a picture of the proper industrial tins needed when using J-tubes. |
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ahh, sorry about jumping in then 
_________________
-pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.) |
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Low67vdubinnocal
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2006
Posts: 840
Location: norcal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have close to the same headers and could not find lower tin that would fit or work with my headers. I would also like to know where that came from and what the part numbers are. It's not that hot in Sac. yet but it will be soon enough. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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I posted this in a similar thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416096
Type III "cool tins" can be used in a pinch but must be modified for upright engine use.
I used this in a pinch for a customer who did not have ANY other tin besides the cool tin and his exhaust would not allow the use of sleds, so this modification was forced into use.
Before/After:
He did not have the small rear finger tin so the sides of the type III tin provided the necessary deflection the stock one would have provided.
In a situation where no sleds can be used (merged header/baja) this mod is worth it. If sleds can be used stick with the stock square deflector tin and the industrial tin or heater box.
Here is the industrial tin template
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401943 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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pupjoint
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2007
Posts: 1140
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: |
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got these repro from Awesome Powdercoat
Clark is a top bloke!
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Those are Type 3 tins and are designed to work with the Type 3 fan.They are not designed for a Type 1 upright engine.
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| derluftwagen wrote: |
| Type III "cool tins" can be used in a pinch but must be modified for upright engine use. |
Its better than not having the diverter plates at all. I do understand they are for use of the large type III fan that pushes air horizontally and these tin help direct the cooling air vertically from top to bottom. The reason the modification took place was the kid who owned the car already had the tin, had no more money AND there was no parts house open at the time of repair which needed to be done so he could drive to work in the morning. Surprisingly, the engine ran cooler by a few degrees after install (via VDO gauges) before any tuning took place.
If possible I always recommend stock tin but in some situations header design and intended use will not allow this. The fact that he was also missing the finger tin and could not use sleds did not help cooling. Modifying the tin in such a way as to simulate front and rear finger tin as well as removing the vertical bends from the tin caused the center of the tin work the same as the stock square plate. In fact, the type III tin has a smoother transition of air due to the "ramp" built in to the center of the tin compared to the stock tin where the air "hits a wall" before changing direction. In my experience this works well in situations listed above and if I had a testing lab I would get some data on its true efficacy. Has Raby done any testing on cool tin with this type of modification??
Those who criticize must remember that not all VW owners are over 50, have a good job with a ton of money to blow, have a back up car and have the luxury to sit at the computer all day. There are hard working kids (and adults) who have to use what they have and do their best to keep their cars alive. |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: Re: deflector plates |
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| badsix wrote: |
| we just had an engine built for my boys 65 bug its a 23 somthing. anyway their are no deflector plates under the cylinders and we arn't running heater box's so do we need these deflectors. |
Seems confusing to me and I am not sure which tin's your talking about. Now the thread has morphed into discussing many different tin pieces.
If your missing these under the cylinders/head... your going to need to take that engine back to the builder and get them to make it right. They screwed up big time.
If your talking about the lower curved sled tin or other then that's different.
Taking a picture of your engine from underneath would really help out. |
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