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Sealing windsheild
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Mulcheese
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Sealing windsheild Reply with quote

I am having the windsheild installed on Monday. The shop had mentioned using urethane caulk to seal it in. It is $20. I could put a bead in for a LOT less.

Do I need this with a new seal?

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=419181
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the urethane caulk helps keep the area sealed as the gasket ages. When I have replaced windshields with new gaskets the windshield sealed just fine with just the gasket, but older gaskets do leak over time (lots of time).
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presslab
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urethane is not the right adhesive for a Vanagon. It has a roped-in windshield seal.

The right adhesive would be:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's not even required but I would recommend it. Only put it on the metal-rubber side and not on the glass.
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the big leaks happen when the pretty fake chrome stips (plastic) that trijm the rubber get old and shrink, they acutaly shrink and you get a big (couple inches) gap in the trim, that is when the rubber seal tends to let go, as it no longer has the trim in it forcing it to be wide.

over time the trim shrinks, if VW had used adhesive originally this probelm may have not occured.
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The Salt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming from someone with a wet floor and dash when it rains... Do what ever you can! Seal it with anything you can!
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marklee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

use a specified, non solidifying sealant between the glass and the rubber and the rubber and the body.
1. To ensure the screen is leak free
2. To ensure moisture isnt trapped between the rubber and the metalwork causing corrosion


Mark
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpl2438 wrote:
use a specified, non solidifying sealant between the glass and the rubber and the rubber and the body.
1. To ensure the screen is leak free
2. To ensure moisture isnt trapped between the rubber and the metalwork causing corrosion


Mark
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good advice I think.

golly canary islands, no VW's ther, thats a bummer!

what is it like there, many cars at all? is it laid back life!!! jobs there? spoken language?


All i really know about the islands is that is where the biggest all time air crash happened (cept 9-11) when two jumbo jets hit on the runway back in the 70's. I was just a kid, but the canary islands were all in the news, and TV for weeks it was a big deal then, still think of that to this day every time time I here canary island. I guess it just freaked my little kid brain out back then. funny things that you remember. Impressionable age i guess.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:32 pm    Post subject: Glass and sealing . Reply with quote

My first question is ,would this glass company that your using not seal it if you didn't pay the $20.00? The $20.00 adhesive charge is generally for a glued in type of windshield where you would be using 2 tubes of adhesive .
Make sure that whoever you choose ,that your main decision is not based on price . Find someone who has a tech competent in older cars and rubber set windows. Everyone says .oh yea it just drops in when you pull the rope. BS !!! .
If you are using a German made FEBI seal ,they work well and are a quality product but they are very tight going in. I have dome probably more than most guys and know what I am up against when I get to this.
As to using Urethane in the seal ,hell yes. But only between the glass and rubber . Make sure that they prime the glass edge where the adhesive will be with the same primer they would use for a glued in glass . Urethane will not stick long term to glass unless properly primed.
My final words on this as a seasoned Glass guy (30 plus years ) stay away from the blue shaded glass and go for the european look of a green tint . The proper part # is FW 416 GGN (shade) or a FW 416b GTN (tint)
There you've looked for advice and as always there are no shortage of opinions here.

Stacy
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SteveVanB
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to have the "wet feet syndrome" when it rained. I just replaced the old seal with a new "euro style" seal from BD. No more wet feet. I did'nt use any sort of sealer........maybe I should have.........Glass is comin back out for paint, maybe then Wink
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Mulcheese
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have the BD seal ready to go in. I was under that impression that this seal was designed to be used alone, without sealant. Is this the wrong idea?
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mulcheese wrote:
I do have the BD seal ready to go in. I was under that impression that this seal was designed to be used alone, without sealant. Is this the wrong idea?


AFAIK you should use it without any sealant. If you want, the sealant can be added later by lifting up the seal around the edge and using a caulk gun to put some sealant under the gasket. That is how my local glass place does it. YMMV.
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bread geek
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: windshield Reply with quote

do not use sealer it is a self sealing gasket.unless there was some bodywork done and you are worried about it.i did autoglass for 10 years.install it if it leaks then deal with it.do not use urethane sealent.it hardens like a rubber tire making a big mess and hard to get out if need be.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: W/s seal Reply with quote

I'm sorry Bread Geek ,I could not disagree with you more. VW sealed them when they were new . Especially the later ones which were almost impossible to remove without cutting the seal.
Urethane is the only sealant to use ,it will add structural rigidity as well as sealing the glass to the seal. I would never use it between the seal and the body as it will crack as the body flex's and would make a hell of a mess.
You seal a new w/s and gasket not for now ,but for down the road when the seal begins to shrink . When you remove it later it will still come right out of the body and then it will peel off of the glass like a zipper.
I have probably done five of these in the last two months . While I understand we are all entitled to our our opinion ,that is just bad advise in my opinion .
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presslab
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: W/s seal Reply with quote

stacy schneider wrote:
I'm sorry Bread Geek ,I could not disagree with you more. VW sealed them when they were new . Especially the later ones which were almost impossible to remove without cutting the seal.


So they sealed all models or just the later ones? I don't understand what you mean "Especially the later ones."

Quote:
Urethane is the only sealant to use ,it will add structural rigidity as well as sealing the glass to the seal. I would never use it between the seal and the body as it will crack as the body flex's and would make a hell of a mess.


What do you use between the body and the seal? That's where the vans rust out and seems to be the problem area.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Sealing W/S Reply with quote

If I use anything on the body side ,it is a non hardening BUTYL sealant which flex's as the body moves .
I think about 86 or so they started to glue the glass in to get it to conform to newer "Egress " laws . I remember when they were more of an everyday car ,thinking how easy a Vanagon was until I started noticing that the newer ones were a pain in the butt .
Rust is not caused by water entering an area as much as the dirt that is left behind and holds the moisture and from pinch weld's that have had the paint scratched through the E Coat from previous encounters. Beside the fact that nothing sticks to rust . My suggestion is to blow that area out with a hose and chase the dirt and crap out .
By it's design ,the water repels out around the seal and runs off . When I do seal them rubber to body , I only seal the top and sides.
This has worked well for me ,but again is my opinion , a strong opinion but still my opinion .

My .02
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the body flexing will cause the rubber to wear the paint down over time, the edges of the body flanges have very little paint on and who knows what repairs or bare metal are under the rubber. I always seal the rubber on install I hate doing a job twice and it prevents rust in the future. Bonded glass Urethane glueis not an ideal sealant for rubber gasket seals but the flexible butyl style is good as it should never harden but remain able to flex. Modern body shells are more rigid than our vans and to bond a laminated glass in a flexing shell will likely result in cracks.
Just my thoughts after 25 years in the motor trade...

regards, Mark
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r39o
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been reading this quite quite closely....this is an OLD OLD problem which I think we can see the root cause.

dave menche wrote:
the big leaks happen when the pretty fake chrome stips (plastic) that trijm the rubber get old and shrink, they acutaly shrink and you get a big (couple inches) gap in the trim, that is when therubber seal tends to let go, as it no longer has the trim in it forcing it to be wide. over time the trim shrinks, if VW had used adhesive originally this probelm may have not occured.

My factory NEW seals with out chrome stripes and with out sealant allowed rust in under 5 years on a windows out repaint of a rust free van. My recycled seals with sticky stuff in them are just fine.

In other words, my front and rear new seals are rusting. My recycled old seals on the sides are not.

mpl2438 wrote:
use a specified, non solidifying sealant between the glass and the rubber and the rubber and the body.
1. To ensure the screen is leak free
2. To ensure moisture isnt trapped between the rubber and the metalwork causing corrosion


Mark
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CGLI Motor Vehicle Repair Tech
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AGREE!!!!!!!

stacy schneider wrote:
My final words on this as a seasoned Glass guy (30 plus years ) stay away from the blue shaded glass and go for the european look of a green tint . The proper part # is FW 416 GGN (shade) or a FW 416b GTN (tint)

WHY??????????
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Glass sealing Reply with quote

" Modern body shells are more rigid than our vans and to bond a laminated glass in a flexing shell will likely result in cracks."
I couldn't disagree more with the above statement . Modern cars use a thinner gauge steel and rely on the glass to properly bonded to add structural rigidity . As stated earlier I would never use Urethane between the rubber and body ,because the van has body movement in the posts. The down side of using a Butyl sealant between the rubber and glass is that it will forever be pushing out sealant and leaving a sticky film where the glass meets the rubber and will eventually push it out making useless.
As to the other statement about the Plastic garnish molding shrinking and causing a leak ,not a chance that would happen . even a five or six inch gap would not cause a problem . The groove where the trim sets in separate from the groove where the glass sits.
Again these are opinions ,but we need to be able to back them up with facts .
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r39o
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:


stacy schneider wrote:
My final words on this as a seasoned Glass guy (30 plus years ) stay away from the blue shaded glass and go for the european look of a green tint . The proper part # is FW 416 GGN (shade) or a FW 416b GTN (tint)

WHY??????????

The answer is?
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:06 pm    Post subject: Why ??? Reply with quote

Ask a question ,what exactly are looking for an answer to . I can guess ,but it would be easier if you would just type out exactly what you want answered .
if you are referring to the color of the glass I prefer ,then here goes . I think putting a Blue shaded windshield in a Vanagon is going to make it look like a Chevy or some other US made van . In my opinion it is like putting white wall tires on a Vanagon ,some people do it and some people like it ,it is just out of character .
Hopefully that answers your question if not let me know.
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