Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Barn Find '57 Oval
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 44, 45, 46 ... 74, 75, 76  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Beetle - Oval-Window - 1953-57 Share: Facebook Twitter
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Last Triumph
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 914
Location: Wirral, United Kingdom
Last Triumph is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right then - bit more progress for you...

Please forgive this rather dull and photo hungry post, it's just that often, step by step, component by component pictures of a procedure can be very helpful so here goes...

With the brakes now built up on the backing plates, it was now time to build up the rear hubs and bearings and here's how I chose to do it.

First up was to give all the original components a thorough clean, especially the bearing. This was done in a pot of brake cleaner. The rear bearings were in perfect condition with no slop, play or grittiness.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Another extremely convenient find from the NOS abyss was a pair of rear axle and hub seal kits. Splendid!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Here are all the components laid out in the order they will be fitted with the outside on the left.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



First assembly part is to fit the new outer seal into the bearing carrier. It is essential that the bearing goes in to the correct depth and most importantly to prevent leaks, it must be 'square' and true in the housing. Pounding this in with a hammer is not an option, and as I didn't have access to the press in work, I had to be inventive.

A rather fortunate discovery was that the outer race of one of the front wheel bearings is the exact same size as the seal...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Which means that with careful planning, I could use this as a 'press' with my vice to insert the seal. To prevent damage to the bearing carrier, I faced it with a black of wood and using the front bearing race, carefully and slowly eased it into position. I found this a very satisfying and controlled way to do it. Make sure the seal is well oiled before you try and insert it as it's a tight fit.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



This seal fits at a precise depth in the carrier and Bentley specify it must be within 4.75mm and 5.00mm of the top of the shoulder. Now - the worst thing you can ever give me is a tolerance like that, as I then spent..... lets just say, 'far too long' making sure that it was absolutely bang in the middle all the way round the seal, but not one to give up, I got it just about perfectly in the middle.... Just can't help it.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And there it is, ready for the next stage. Gotta love original blue VW seals.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And so - to the rear axle area which is bear, thoroughly clean and hungry for parts.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



At this point we'll assume that every part fitted is perfectly clean and oiled when fitted. First on the shaft is the inner spacer who's curved side butts up against the machined radius on the axle.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Followed by the first paper gasket to seal the axle tube to the back of the backing plate. I coated it with Curil K2 sealant to be extra secure.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Followed by the bearing...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Then the bearing washer...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Followed by the inner O-ring seal...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Which sits in the chamfered recess on the main outer spacer...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Which allows the main brake backing plate to be offered up in to position, but is just resting in place...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Then the larger outer O ring seal fits in the space between a machined recess between the backing plate and the axle tube housing...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Which now allows it all to be held in place by bolting on the main seal and bearing housing, which also has a gasket...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Torque these four 14mm bolts up in a criss cross pattern to gently ease the inner lip of the seal over the outer spacer ring to form the main oil seal. These get torqued to 30 ft lbs.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



At this point I quickly flipped the shoes downwards to fit the handbrake cable to the lever arm and secured the support bracket for the handbrake in place leaving us with a finished rear brake!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The cleaned drum went on perfectly and all is well!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The other side is just the same and is also all complete now.

Like I say, sorry for the dullness, but it might just be a help to anyone who is maybe a little intimidated about how this lot all fits together.

As long as you take your time, make sure everything is clean and oiled and goes on straight, it's really not a difficult job.

That's all for now folks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Wiggy
Samba Member


Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
Wiggy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pure Porn. Nice job.
_________________
Kevin "Wiggy"

My 58 Ghia Vert

My 51 Split 11G

My 57 Deluxe

My 56 Oval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Erik G
Samba Member


Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13226
Location: Tejas!
Erik G is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been through leaks and such regarding the rear bearings and seals. excellent step by step photo's, it will help a great many people
_________________
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MODIFIER
Samba Member


Joined: December 09, 2006
Posts: 1560
Location: Summerville SC
MODIFIER is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So your wheel cylinder is on the bottom of the backing plate?
I guess they swapped them to the top for later models.
_________________
Happyasshell
USC USMC DAD OORAH!
ASE MASTER TECH BODY/PAINT and MECHANICAL

62 Beetle
63 Vert
64 Beetle
https://www.facebook.com/SmartFarmServices
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BlueJayScout
Samba Member


Joined: April 03, 2010
Posts: 192
Location: Abilene Texas
BlueJayScout is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work as always.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
surewriting
Samba Member


Joined: September 17, 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Buford, Ga
surewriting is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please keep it up with the photo-heavy posts! They are an extremely helpful reference tool, not to mention pure heaven to view. Excellent job, as always.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
silvertonguedevil
Samba Member


Joined: September 26, 2010
Posts: 1692
Location: Vale, OR
silvertonguedevil is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

surewriting wrote:
Please keep it up with the photo-heavy posts! They are an extremely helpful reference tool, not to mention pure heaven to view. Excellent job, as always.


X2!! I will be at this step soon and this was by far the best step-by-step I've seen. Keep the photo-heavy posts coming!!
_________________
-Greg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bunkington
Samba Member


Joined: February 03, 2009
Posts: 285
Location: Bethesda, MD
bunkington is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignorant question - isn't that bearing supposed to be packed with grease?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jvulich
Samba Member


Joined: May 06, 2010
Posts: 215
Location: Clovis
jvulich is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the later IRS cars yes, but on the early swing axle cars they are fed with gear oil from the transaxle through the axle tube.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Flavio
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
Flavio is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello LT
Amazing and shared job. Thanks for your service to us.
One question: regarding the rear brakes and that long and retangular piece of metal where the bottom horizontal spring sits, it has a long concavity for the spring. In your case is facing down. Right ? In the right side brakes does the spring "uses" that concavity or is it reversed ?
Thanks in advance
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Last Triumph
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 914
Location: Wirral, United Kingdom
Last Triumph is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flavio wrote:
Hello LT
Amazing and shared job. Thanks for your service to us.
One question: regarding the rear brakes and that long and retangular piece of metal where the bottom horizontal spring sits, it has a long concavity for the spring. In your case is facing down. Right ? In the right side brakes does the spring "uses" that concavity or is it reversed ?
Thanks in advance


Yes, spring sits in the concavity on both sides facing downwards, held in place with a spring clip.




On another note - the steering box seal is leaking at the top where the steering column shaft comes out so I guess you'll see a step by step early steering box rebuild soon!

Where can I get a top shaft seal from then as they are different from the '61> seals....?

Please, can we keep the proposed use of grease out of this discussion, as it ain't happenin'..... Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
vwrides.com
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Central MS
vwrides.com is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Stuff. Keep the photos coming.
_________________
([email protected])


FOR SALE www.VWOVAL.com domain name:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1602771

FOR SALE 1968 VW Resto/Parts VAN:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1585662
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Last Triumph
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 914
Location: Wirral, United Kingdom
Last Triumph is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want photos? I got photo's for ya, so buckle up for a treat of a trip into automotive astonishment.... in the mean time, here's an update!

I noticed the other day a nice a damp patch of oil on the floor under the steering box and thought it might be a good idea to fix this before everything goes back on the car.

The Bentley manual says it is wise to bolt the steering box to a tube similar in diameter to the front beam to allow it to be worked on easily.

This sounded like a great idea, so in the absence of a tube of the correct diameter, I tried to 'think outside the box' for a moment and came up with this idea....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



This next picture shows where the oil was seeping from. You'll notice a damp and shiny patch under where the steering column input shaft sticks out.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



First up is to remove the top cover. I removed the 19mm drain plug. For reference, when bolted in the car and on level ground, the level should be filled to the bottom of the threads with EP90 transmission oil only.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Followed by the four 14mm bolts that hold the top cover in place.... The gasket is in perfect condition which was a nice surprise.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I was delighted with how clean and un-worn everything looked in there!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I then removed the pre load spring and pin from the main shaft....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Which leaves a nice hole at the top of the shaft...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I then released the pinch bolt that secures the adjustable input shaft and seal carrier - 17mm for the record.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



To release and remove the main shaft, you must first release the pitman arm from the bottom. It won't come off due to the lower beam tube being in the way, but is released when you pull the shaft up from above. Slackening the box clamps to the top tube and rotating it on the tube would allow it to come off, but as the shaft is coming out anyway, I decided to leave the box in it's pre-aligned position.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Lifting the shaft up releases the ball jointed upper part of the worm drive which is an interesting piece of kit....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The arm just pulls out at this point.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Note the recessed section half way down it's length? This is to allow oil to surround the shaft which drains to the shaft via a hole in the lower side wall of the main reservoir. You can see this hole half way down the tube on second and third pic in this sequence...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



At this point I wanted to be 100% sure of exactly where the leak was coming from, so I tilted the axle back to level the steering box and force the now low oil level up the input shaft to the seal and see what happened.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



After a few turns lock to lock, it was pretty clear that the input seal was the culprit...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The seal is housed in an intermediate housing with a helically machined groove that the pinch bolt sits in. By turning this shaft with a large 27mm spanner, you actually push it in or out of the box to keep it firmly against the bearing which sits within the box.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Waggling it back and forth also helps to release it and pull it clear. These next two pictures are of it sitting on the end of the shaft as if I'd just removed it, but you'll notice that it's clean as I'd already cleaned it up to inspect it and the bearing before I'd remembered to take these two shots.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Here, you can just make out the position of the bearing at the end of the main housing.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And here it is....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The seal in the end is a very disappointing affair being a basic pressed tin cup with a felt 'bush' in to act as a seal. No wonder they are prone to leaking. I guess they didn't make lip seals that small back in the day? It is pressed into the end of the shaft and just pops out with a drift.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Having phoned all the specialists I could think of and being told that the seal is no longer available and that I should 'upgrade' to the later '61> steering box, I decided that I'd accept the challenge and find one.

A morning spent on the phone to all my old engineering contacts plus a few new ones seemed like it was going nowhere - maybe they were right - maybe you just can't get this seal any more? After a bit of a wild goose chase I eventually found a supplier who, after checking in their stores came up with the perfect sized nitrile NBR lip seal!!!

Result!!!

And yes - I bought them all!

Early steering boxes are safe now boys and girls!

As soon as they arrive in the post, I'll put it all back together and report my findings.

That is all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Kjell Roar
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 1325
Location: Norway
Kjell Roar is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have the dimension for the seal? (outer/inner/wide).
The seal is probably easy to get from specialists/industry suppliers. I have sold a lot of different seals and o-rings on my former work.
_________________
I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...

My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Seb67
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2003
Posts: 1003
Location: New England
Seb67 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I wonder if that material is related to the stuff found in the oil bath air cleaners? Or perhaps the same felt found in Distributors? Seems like you could find the correct replacement material and re-use the metal bit. Anyhow -- this thread is chuffing brilliant!
_________________
1964 Type 1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
3foldfolly
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 894
Location: Edwardsville, Il
3foldfolly is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most excellent LT. Thanks for the guided tour through vintage beetle no mans land. I need one of those seals too. Please keep us updated. Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Last Triumph
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 914
Location: Wirral, United Kingdom
Last Triumph is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the felt seal is that it is intrinsically a poor design for this purpose - sooner or later it is going to leak.

If these new seals I've bought actually fit and work when they arrive, I'll sell the remaining items and we can go from there.

Let's see that they are suitable before we get too excited.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
nick696
Samba Member


Joined: June 25, 2009
Posts: 198
Location: Belgium
nick696 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had the same problem and fixed it the same way by buying a NBR lip seal, they do the job Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
3foldfolly
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 894
Location: Edwardsville, Il
3foldfolly is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last Triumph wrote:
The problem with the felt seal is that it is intrinsically a poor design for this purpose - sooner or later it is going to leak.

If these new seals I've bought actually fit and work when they arrive, I'll sell the remaining items and we can go from there.

Let's see that they are suitable before we get too excited.
Ok, I'll just simmer down and wait for the verdict. What type of seal is used to seal the bottom of the main shaft by the pitman arm?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Last Triumph
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 914
Location: Wirral, United Kingdom
Last Triumph is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3foldfolly wrote:
Last Triumph wrote:
The problem with the felt seal is that it is intrinsically a poor design for this purpose - sooner or later it is going to leak.

If these new seals I've bought actually fit and work when they arrive, I'll sell the remaining items and we can go from there.

Let's see that they are suitable before we get too excited.
Ok, I'll just simmer down and wait for the verdict. What type of seal is used to seal the bottom of the main shaft by the pitman arm?


A proper lip seal...


The bag of seals arrived and I was duly impressed with them so headed on out to the garage with success on my mind...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



It was a nice but not overly tight press fit in the shaft and only needed a drift for the final stage of insertion. I used some Curil K2 engine sealant as a belt and braces approach.

18mm Socket was a perfect diameter 'press' to get it in.

There is a perfect 'shelf' for the seal to sit against a little further in than the original seal which makes sure that it is sitting square.

You can see the sealant squishing out from the rear view picture.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



After giving the input shaft a good polish to help the seal do it;s job, I greased everything up and slid the adjustment sleeve into position.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I then drained the remaining fluid out of the box, remounted the top cover with sealant and added exactly 125ml as per the manual which amazingly filled it to precisely the bottom of the filler plug threads.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And there it is, all done....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Once I'd adjusted the shaft clearance I turned it lock to lock many times and waited to see what happened. two hours later and it was still bone dry...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Result Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Forum Index -> Beetle - Oval-Window - 1953-57 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 44, 45, 46 ... 74, 75, 76  Next
Jump to:
Page 45 of 76

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.