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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: Anyone deal with trailing arms? |
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I'm starting to look at the problem of oft-neglected trailing arms and wondering about solutions. Up to now I've just been presuming that they don't need much maintenance. However, one of mine is missing the rubber bumper for the spring, as well as the two pads, and the bumper is missing because of rust. So what to do. I have a feeling this contributed to my OME shock blowing out in the desert this spring and want to take care of it.
I have an estimate for about $400 to have a used trailing arm with new bushings installed. Based on reading some of the posts here, it's not that difficult of an install except if the bolts rust, which given my situation I can count on. So maybe more than $400 when all is said and done. $500? Sounds like a lot. And another $200 to do the bushings on the other side which still has the bumper. $700 bucks
So I was thinking of buying two used, stripped arms and new bushings. Then sandblasting and powdercoating the arms before installing. Some questions:
1. How hard are the OEM bushings to put in, and can you do it without a press? Can you do it with a vice, hammer, soap, etc?
2. Anybody use poly bushings like the ones Burley MS sells? Is there a difference in ride/handling? Seems like rubber would give a better ride than poly but there might not be a noticeable difference.
3. What do you do for the bumper and the spring pads, both NLA from the dealers/usual suppliers?
Thanks folks and happy Father's Day to those who are. |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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You will need a press to do the bushings properly IMHO.
I have bare rear arms available with good used bushings in them.
I am in NY so shipping would be a bit high, but possibly cheaper than your quote.
dylan |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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polyurethane bushings suck
- I don't know what the other options are for Vanagons, but for some sports car there are xlnt bearings made by an outfit called Elephant Racing - maybe, if we all went to his web site and pleaded for a few years he'd see a new market opportunity. _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Alaric.H Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009 Posts: 2529 Location: Sandy Springs GA
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have Burley's and PowerFlex.
Both are very good.
Both are two piece and are much easier to install. |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Get something like this?- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398357&highlight=bushing
Some 1/2 inch all thread and you might be able to fashion a puller to pull it in. I used to have a link of someone doing that, but it is dead now. They had a large socket on the opposite side of the bushing that was being pulled through. Some large thick flat washers were back up against the bushing to help drive it in along with some lube. It would be some work though.
Any year vanagon trailing arm will work.
To remove the bushing from the donor, drill holes around the steel sleeve in the bushing and once the sleeve pushes out easily the bushing will be easy to remove.
The upper spring pad is used for all the vanagons and all the way through the eurovans too if you can find one in the wreckers. The lower spring pad along with the bumper can be harvested from any vanagon.
Buy the 4 trailing bolts before tackling this job because at least 2 will have to be destroyed so you might as well be prepared. |
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240Gordy Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008 Posts: 2354 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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I got some trailing arms from a fellow Sambanista and it was a real bear to get them off. We had to cut the mounting brackets off the donor, it was already mucho cut up anyways, but the bolts were not coming out. They are all cleaned and painted but I am afraid to tackle getting the old ones off the van incase it ends in the same impasse.
they sure look great all sandblasted and painted under the work bench though. Whenever I get around to my big brake project i'll have a rig to test them out on. _________________ Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:34 am Post subject: |
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other tricks to install include heating the arm in boiling water, oven, or BBQ _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent information here.
I know the poly bushings give a slightly harsher ride in return for better handling (had them on my old Saab 9K.) But it doesn't seem like that would make a difference for the rear end, right?
Somebody should sell these trailing arms rebuilt: powder coated, bushings installed, bumper installed, bolts, all you need for a plug and play replacement. Any vendors out there reading this? |
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BushChicken Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2010 Posts: 250 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Californio wrote: |
Somebody should sell these trailing arms rebuilt: powder coated, bushings installed, bumper installed, bolts, all you need for a plug and play replacement. Any vendors out there reading this? |
HAHA! I can just see the bashing said vendor would get here on The Samba!
Everyone would be chimming in on the exhorbitant price of the unit saying "they could do that for half the price in only 6 hours on a Saturday!"
That being said, I'm sure many people would be stoked on the service. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
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BushChicken wrote: |
Californio wrote: |
Somebody should sell these trailing arms rebuilt: powder coated, bushings installed, bumper installed, bolts, all you need for a plug and play replacement. Any vendors out there reading this? |
HAHA! I can just see the bashing said vendor would get here on The Samba!
Everyone would be chimming in on the exhorbitant price of the unit saying "they could do that for half the price in only 6 hours on a Saturday!"
That being said, I'm sure many people would be stoked on the service. |
Oh man, have you nailed it! _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: |
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How much would they be? Guestimate: $50 each for the arms, $80 for the bushings, $50 for pressing in bushings, $75 for powder coat, $10 for rubber bumper. $265. 40% markup = $106, total say $375. So to do the two including shipping you'd be looking at $1000. Bit spendy indeed. Smart folks could of course make them up for way less... |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Californio wrote: |
So to do the two including shipping you'd be looking at $1000. |
I'd guess more like $1400 for a pair. (And don't forget sales tax nearing 9%)
I have a second set of 14s waiting the next phase of my project. They will be clearanced for big 16" wheels and tires.
The demand would be relatively low for off-the-shelf rehabbed 14s.. and you'd need to factor in core charges, since no one is going to want to stock a dozen sets waiting for the occasional order.
Cleaning these things is a bitch, too. The insides have 20 yrs of crap accumulated. Grease, mouse droppings.. And the condition of many sets from wrecks is suspect. Rust.
So there is a liability issue lurking. (I think there is a post somewhere of a swing arm failure at the outboard hinge point.)
You may need multpile donors to get one good set, inluding pads/bumpers.
My thoughts are, if you want re-habbed arms, look at Burley's 16" offerings.. That will give you an idea of the cost to fully rehab a 14" set.
And I'd hazard a guess, that a local shop would be willing to do the work for you for the right amount of money (given adequate direction on cleaning and repainting).. They will have an adeuqate sized press to get the bushings in.. and the equipment or (contact to someone who does) to have them cleaned and painted properly.
Keep in mind, there are rod shops all over the place, that are geared towards one-off projects. Call around. I'd bet someone could help locally.
One other note.. when I went looking for an extra set of 14s.. I saw many vanagons going to the crusher with swingarms still in place. (You kind of need them to roll a carcass around).. So a word to the recylcers.
Star pulling these thngs before crushing.. they may be of more value in the coming yrs. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Alaric.H Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009 Posts: 2529 Location: Sandy Springs GA
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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I did a set of trailing arms today in 6hr today they were greasy sloppy things to. ezoff helped a lot as well as degreaser. The eraser cabinet did not hurt either. I pressed the bushing out with a port a ram I got off craigslist for 50$ I use that thing for all kinds of stuff. Painted this job would be about 375$ that would be including materials. let me think 3 cans of ezoff 1 bag of media gas for the big compressor degreaser& paint sand paper caratage for my air dryer.So on and so on.
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Lay a nice fat bead around the round spring perch if they aren't going to be sent out to get lengthened. The spot welds can fail and the spring can get messed up.
That is a lot of work to just paint them again. |
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Alaric.H Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009 Posts: 2529 Location: Sandy Springs GA
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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syncrodoka wrote: |
Lay a nice fat bead around the round spring perch if they aren't going to be sent out to get lengthened. The spot welds can fail and the spring can get messed up.
That is a lot of work to just paint them again. |
Thanks for the tip they are not going to be lengthened but if you take a look the lip has been cut off here and there to clear snow chains. |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
the lip has been cut off here and there to clear snow chains. |
Oh, I didn't notice that until you mentioned it.
I have a set of trailing arms sitting around to do the same thing to when I get some "spare time". |
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axeman Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2009 Posts: 162 Location: east kent, uk
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: |
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i went through the same sort of thing, and added 4 small (40mm long) seam welds to the spring plate base, i ended getting them hot dip galvanised as i was wanted them to be fully rust proffed, it was the only way that i could be sure that the internal side of the trailing arms were protected, and would not rust from the inside out, which seams to be the vw way.
neil _________________ 1957, 1200cc 30hp, big window, delux beetle, swedish modle, now living in france
1991 holdsworth villa 3, 2.1, uk van, now sold
1991 syncro doka uk van was 2.1 now B230, out with the b230 and in with a 1.8 20v, and 4 doors
1987 syncro westy was 1.6 jx now ej22 |
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syncrosimon Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2008 Posts: 257 Location: Devon, England
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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That mini ram is excellent. _________________ 1991 16" 2.1 DJ Syncro factory hightop ex Finnish Army Ambulance, now sold.
Thinking about Thing or 181 (182) ownership. |
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Alaric.H Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009 Posts: 2529 Location: Sandy Springs GA
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well I thought I would post some pictures of the arms painted I did the inside silver so you can see the CV better if you need to fix the axle.
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