Fix that Poptop push bar!

[randywebb]

How do you know if it needs to be fixed?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[syncroserge]

This is the first sign that got me suspicious...

[Racerrojo]

This tread is very helpful
Here' the one on my new acquisition

Is in an '85 and seems to be spring loaded, which should make it loads of fun to fix !
Right?
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Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!


Too many vans and mostly all projects

[Vanagon Nut]

[Ahwahnee]

[msinabottle]

Does anyone remember the inner diameter of the push-bar? I like the idea of filling in the ends to make them solid with those bushings from Ace... I'd like to have them on hand when Winston's top is off him and disassembled for the tent replacement.

I wonder if Ace would also have 3/4" bronze flanges to weld in for a better bearing surface... I imagine things will be clearer when I have the whole thing out. Les Alelier suggests just reversing the bar, that will be part of the solution, I'm sure.

The parts are only out of alignment on the driver's side, but we'll see what's going on when it's all apart.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[Ahwahnee]

[msinabottle]

Thank you, Ahwahnee, for the follow-up, much appreciated. O Welders, IS it a better idea to use steel pipe or bronze flanges? I distrust copper, I know what a soft metal it can be.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[Ahwahnee]

Yikes -- I got to thinking about it and went out to the garage for a look -- 1/2" is surely too small, were probably more like 5/8".

Would have been some common size as Ace only had these in common increments.

I don't think choice of materials is that much of an issue here -- the wear that occurs originally was because of the 'knife edge' of that fitting rubbing against the push bar. Any metal that adds width to that contact should be adequate to protect it.

[msinabottle]

I see from closer examination that Ahwahnee didn't drill out the existing hole on the moldings holding the push bar, he just had two slices of that 13/15" steel pipe tack-welded on either side of that dratted knife edge. I'd love to know how thick those slices of steel pipe were.

Did the 5/8" outer-diameter bushings stuck into the worn areas interfere with the spring inside the push bar in any way? Those in place, the metal welded into the grooved areas and ground smooth, that's clear even to me.



I have looked into bronze sleeve bushings. They are made in 7/8" inner-diameter size, various widths, oil-impregnated and designed to lubricate in areas where inducing lubrication externally is difficult. That's rather spot-on. Not sure about locking those flanges in place, though. You CAN, I have found, weld bronze to steel, I'm not sure if you can weld oil-impregnated bronze sleeve bushings to steel. Maybe weld in a piece of steel pipe with the bronze flange locked or edge-welded into that...

Ahwahnee's method wouldn't present the smoothest imaginable surface to the push bar, but he certainly managed a surface wider than the knife edge, and the gaps between the four 'sleeves' and the knife-edges would perhaps act to hold lubricant.

They make some REALLY impressive lubricants these days, some of which bond to the metal permanently. Ahwwahnee's way of doing things doesn't require any drilling, putting in the bronze sleeve bearing would, and there's the locking issue. You can get the sleeve bearings in various thicknesses.

Getting ready to do this, just soliciting further thoughts before plunging in.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[Ahwahnee]

In my opinion copious amounts or regular application of lubes is not needed (or desirable) here. Once you have that contact spread over more than that 'knife edge' it'll should fine forever with just a touch of silicone grease or what have you prior to assembly. More lube will just stain the canvas that lies next to it when folded down.

Even if you camp a lot and put that top up and down nearly every day that is only a few dozen movements per year -- not a high wear situation once those bushings are on there.

[msinabottle]

Well, I hired a good welder to do Ahwahnee's fix, and once he figured out what I wanted--and how bad the original design was--he did a stellar job, even trued up where the pipe slices joined up with the old knife-edge. He suggested that I use synthetic grease on the new bearing surface, another friend, with very long experience in metal fabrication, looked over the repaired parts and suggested graphite anti-seize. That wouldn't flow much.

Pending reassembly... Your thoughts?

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[msinabottle]

Aha! I now have an ability Everett must envy! I KNOW HOW TO KEEP VW Owners from offering an opinion!

ASK THEM FOR ONE!



Seriously, folks... Synthetic grease or anti-seize on the pop top bar?

Choose one. Please?

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[kuleinc]

Synthetic grease, anti seize is for bolts...
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Check out our Our youtube channel: Https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-EbskIxNm6SYzsq4ugG81A
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496946 1987 VW Vanagon Westfalia with 1.8T

[Perales]

[Ahwahnee]

My biggest concern would be staining the canvas -- antiseize leaves a dark metallic stain on any cloth (or skin) it gets on -- I would favor the synthetic and very little of that.

[dhaavers]

[randywebb]

this would make a good commercial product - could do it on an exchange basis thru Van-Cafe or GW
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[msinabottle]

Thank you, Gentlemen. I have that red synthetic moly grease we're supposed to use (and I have used it!) on the shifter mechanism, I'll put a film of that on the wearing parts before I reassemble them.

I know there are modern lubricants that are supposed to bond with the actual metal, they're used a lot on firearms. I have a feeling they'd be a bit expensive. I appreciate the reassurance and thoughtful input.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[msinabottle]

Reassembled the mechanism, with a thin coat of synthetic grease on both surfaces, applied by finger--went so far as to clean the steel up with baby oil and steel wool (Really works) and then Mother's Rim Polish (works even more) and apply wax--for looks and protection, and it'll be easy to find in dim light!

Now, on each of the lower legs of the lifting mechanism are the ends of the internal springs, with that sort of plunger thing at the ends. Am I right to assume that the lower two pins of the lifting mechanism need to be above those plunger things to keep tension on the spring when I reassemble the whole thing?

I'll note that I have one of the later EKTA versions, and I went page by page through it and couldn't find an exploded view of the pop-top!

Thank you very much in advance.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."