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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: Borrow an ECU? stranded. Car barely catches sputters, dies. |
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it's stranded me SO often... this spring/summer....
Anyone have a spare 87-91 ecu I can borrow for testing purposes?
Fuel pressure 35psi good stays high, 4 injectors spray pattern good tested in car.
Coil is within specs. New cap, rotor, wires, plugs w/in 3k miles... new 0 mi plugs just in case the old ones were flooded and ruined. plugs looked even and tan the before the short 10mi trip that stranded me. Now they look black and wet.
Car was running badly, developed hesitation... i think someone may have prank contaminated my gas (I imediately diluted gas with fresh gas and now only have 1/20th of the "bad" gas... it was running on the pure "bad gas" and now I cant get it to start at all so I do not believe that the gas is the issue.
Car did backfire... bent valves now? My next checks will be hall sensor.. and compression.
Please samba kenobi. Your my only hope.
Grounds under coil have been cleaned as well as engine block. under ECU will be next.
Last edited by brooklynvanagon on Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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maximan1
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2008
Posts: 1354
Location: Anaheim, California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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You are running way too rich for some reason. I don't think it's the ECU as much as the AFM. Did you do anything with the AFM recently? Is it plugged in?
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1978 Transporter, 2.0L FI |
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Williamtaylor33
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Edit....
Can't get the ecu up north soon enough. Sorry
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89 Bostig powered syncro westy
Last edited by Williamtaylor33 on Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| maximan1 wrote: |
| You are running way too rich for some reason. I don't think it's the ECU as much as the AFM. Did you do anything with the AFM recently? Is it plugged in? |
I'm currently in a no start situation... I think this should rule out the idle valve, temp 2, o2 sensor and AFM... None of these things are used at all when cranking and before car is warm.
in a 30 sec pull of the starter the car sounds no spark, then,' like it will catch, and catches for a 2 or 3 revs and dies.
the throttle switch is good and clicks properly. o2 is new, waterpump is new. Last week the timing was checked @ 7 deg atdc at idle. Idle valve and computer works well. New fuel lines, and injector washers. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| brooklynvanagon wrote: |
| I think this should rule out the idle valve, temp 2, o2 sensor and AFM... None of these things are used at all when cranking and before car is warm. |
Your engine is totally dependent on the TII sensor and the AFM until the O2 sensor comes on line. The idle control system also provides extra air to the cold engine. |
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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| brooklynvanagon wrote: |
| I think this should rule out the idle valve, temp 2, o2 sensor and AFM... None of these things are used at all when cranking and before car is warm. |
Your engine is totally dependent on the TII sensor and the AFM until the O2 sensor comes on line. The idle control system also provides extra air to the cold engine. |
I have a new in box TII sensor, and will try swapping but does that cause a no start situation? Anyone have a spare AFM I can troubleshoot with? |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16505
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Syncroincity
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007
Posts: 1557
Location: New York City
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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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maximan: the hesitation devolped slowly over 25 mi... I did add "drygas" and diluted the "bad gas"... the hesitation turned into dying and dying turned into extended cranking and now we have cranking and barely catching and stalling... this over the space of 25 mi or so.
i did disconnect and reconnect the afm severaltimes... checking the plugs, testing the FI spray pattern. The afm appears to never have been open. Temp II seemed to work fine when I checked my timing according to bentley... connecting and disconnecting did the right stuff, I think. That was less than 200 mi ago.
Either there was no "bad gas" and the spark or whatever just slowly stopped working, or the backfiring or my troubleshooting broke something, or other yet unknown factors are at work. It's not the fuel tho! Unless the prescribed amount of drygas is somehow to blame.
yes i'm stranded in brooklyn. Need to get going asap... and the Street Sweepers are coming. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Your timing at idle should be 5BTDC, not 7ATDC. Bump it up a bit and see if it starts better.
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Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| had the EXACT same problems, it was a bad hall sensor in the distributor. i was even getting spark just not at the right time. all the other stuff checked out just like your car. |
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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| If u have a new temp 2 sensor to test just unplug the old one and plug up the new, no nee to actually install it to test for your starting problem. |
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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Your timing at idle should be 5BTDC, not 7ATDC. Bump it up a bit and see if it starts better. |
i use this http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3568-Digital-Inductive...598M2CR7EC
set to 6-7 deg it shows the timing mark lining up properly... I guess thats actually 7 deg BTDC  ... the total advance was correct last time I checked 200 mi ago. |
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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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good news, its not the ecu or the air flow meter...
bad news, I still dont know whats wrong...
ran for 12 blocks or so , with hesiations, low power... and back to cranking and not catching. lots of unburnt fuel. |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| had the EXACT same problems, it was a bad hall sensor in the distributor. i was even getting spark just not at the right time. all the other stuff checked out just like your car. |
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Syncroincity
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007
Posts: 1557
Location: New York City
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brooklynvanagon
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| It was the coil all along. Not my finest troubleshooting hour. Although in my defense, the coil did meet bentley specs. And it was a decline over a few days, not a never spark situation. The coil will still get it to idle when cold and maybe even move a few blocks. |
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Syncroincity
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007
Posts: 1557
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Any troubleshooting you can drive away from is successful  Coils are weird, the insulation breaks down, it may test fine but under field collapse it might start shorting out. Our Jetta had the coil go bad... tested OK on a meter, but wouldn't run the engine. Only figured it out after a lot of shotgun troubleshooting and parts replacing. All the Mexican Bosch parts replaced with German parts, never a problem again.
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'86 Syncro CHC Top AAZ Turbodiesel
'04 Passat Variant 4Mo 5MT
Vanagon Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466866&highlight= |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Yep, you can't rely on the resistance specs to isolate a flaky coil, by the time it's out of spec it probably isn't working at all. As much as I hate parts-changing, this is one of that handful of parts where if you suspect it, you just have to suck it up and try a new one.
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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So, is doing a resistance check on the coil worthless?
my motor seems to be fine, but I just hit this thread while doing a search on things to check periodically (to make sure I don't get stranded & keep up on regular maintenance)...
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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