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79 intermittent wiring
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79bugman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: 79 intermittent wiring Reply with quote

OK, I have read alot of posts and seen alot of pics but here is the wiper wiring for 79 intermittent wipers in plain old terms.

The colors of my wires are from factory as far as I know.

here goes.....

A SOLID GREEN DIRECTLY FROM MOTOR TO 53E ON SWITCH.
A BLACK/YELLOW DIRECTLY FROM MOTOR TO 53B ON SWITCH.
A BLACK/GREY DIRECTLY FROM MOTOR TO 53A ON SWITCH.
A BROWN/BLACK DIRECTLY FROM SWITCH S TO S ON RELAY.
A SOLID BLACK FROM SWITCH 53 TO 53S ON RELAY.
A SOLID BLACK DIRECTLY FROM MOTOR TO 53M ON RELAY.
A SOLID BROWN FROM RELAY 31 TO GROUND BLOCK BEHIND DASH.
THE 2 BLACK/GREY WIRES COMING FROM THE SAME SPADE CONNECTOR HOOKED FROM #10 FUSE.....1 GOES DIRECTLY TO 15 ON RELAY AND THE OTHER CONNECTS DIRECTLY TO BLACK/GREY COMING FROM MOTOR.

RELAY PART # 111-955-531

The speeds are as follows....

1 CLICK UP IS REALLY SLOW
2 CLICKS UP IS A BIT FASTER.....LOL
PULL THE ARM TOWARDS YOURSELF AND YOU SHOULD GET SPRAY AND THE WIPERS SHOULD GO BACK AND FORTH A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THEN REST IN THE PARK POSITION.

I beleve the intermittent function in one click downward but mine does not seem to work.

I hope this helps thoes in the future so they do not have to spend two weeks trouble shooting like I did trying to wire the wipers. Others may add on to this post, but this is how I have mine hooked up and they work fine, execpt the intermittent function.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL.
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jezze269
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you get your problem figured out? Im trying to add this function to my 73 superbeetle. Could you take some pictures of the wiring, and the relay? I have no way to see how the factory hooked it up as the intermittent wiring its not in the bentley manual.
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Joel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugman, you're spot on with your wiring although some diagrams have 53S and 53M the other way around.

Sounds like your problem is the timer in the relay is faulty

I just about did my head in reasearching intermittent wipers over the last few weeks as I wanted to fit it to my 74 Super

I ended up fitting the variable delay system from 90s VWs in my super which took alot of frigging around to get working


Link

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Joel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew it was here somewhere

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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jezze269
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you use the "99" relay on your 74? That's what I'm trying to hook up.
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Joel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep thats the one, or 197. is the superceded version

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It has similar terminals to the standard relay but the orientation is different and it has the extra terminal (T or 86) for the wash/wipe function.

Easiest way to hook it up would be to use an on/off toggle switch on the dash for intermittent.
It took alot of modifying to the switch to get it to work the relay properly
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jezze269
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, that must be why I can't get to work then. I have the motor, relay, and switch on my workbench hooked together with test leads. I thought I read that these newer relays were plug and play as well? Bummer.
I would love to see some actual pictures of the wiring on the 79 verts to see how the harness looks. Mainly how they deviate from the plug from the wiper motor to switch, and the relay wiring
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Joel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're only plug and play on the later watercooled vws that dont have it standard.

The wiring doesnt really differ much except that 53 (low speed) goes from the switch to the motor via the relay where as normally it goes directly to the motor with all the other wires and the S1 wire from the switch to the relay which is for the intermittent timer
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germansupplyscott
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buggin_74 wrote:
I knew it was here somewhere

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


thanks for posting this. i am working on a retrofit kit for intermittent wipers in a late baywindow bus, with washer function incorporated in the stalk switch. the replacement wiper switches have the S wire. in this diagram, where/how would the pump connect?
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more possibility.
I believe the wiper switch on your '79 is similar to those on early Rabbits, Dashers. etc.
If so, there is a white plastic wedge in the switch which prevents the switch from moving to the intermittent position. If I remember correctly, the switch has to be removed, and then the wedge removed from the switch in order to make the intermittent wipe feature work.
Photo:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Good luck, Mondshine
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Joel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those ones dont fit a bug unless you swap the whole column over cos they use 3 screw mounting and bugs are 4
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germansupplyscott wrote:


thanks for posting this. i am working on a retrofit kit for intermittent wipers in a late baywindow bus, with washer function incorporated in the stalk switch. the replacement wiper switches have the S wire. in this diagram, where/how would the pump connect?


I'm guessing the late bays are the same setup as beetles.
Mine just had some contacts that powered up S1 (brown/white wire) when the switch was in the wash position

I just ran that to the washer motor
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germansupplyscott
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel wrote:
I'm guessing the late bays are the same setup as beetles.
Mine just had some contacts that powered up S1 (brown/white wire) when the switch was in the wash position

I just ran that to the washer motor


yes, they are almost identical.

the retrofit wipe/wash switch that i am using for the bus kit has one more wire besides. i believe if we use the later (vanagon) intermittent relay you can have intermittent, electric wash, and also when you activate electric wash the washer pump should pulse a few times. but i have not figured out the wiring schematic for this yet. the late bay replacement switch works perfectly with the same schematic as above, using the 111 955 531 relay, but i believe it can be made to work as i indicate.
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Joel
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately the later watercooled intermittent relays like vanagons, golfs etc have are very different to the older air cooled stuff, I went through hell making a 1999 Polo variable intermittent relay work with mine

Before I had the intermittent setup the contacts for the washer just powered it through the black wire which is supposed to be an earth

Its a really wierd setup in stock form, the signal to the int relay is grounded when not in use, goes open circuit when int is selected and has 12volts applied when wash is selected
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Chris Vellat
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've put the '99' relay in a couple watercooleds...the relay has a programmable intermittent...it's been awhile, but I'm almost certain you must go into the 'int' position then back to 'off' (delay a moment, this is your timer) and then back to the 'int' position for it to work.

I prefer the dash mounted wiper switch, 75600-04 by Cole Hersee

I used to have a `77 with a Passat steering wheel and it wouldn't work with the wiper stalk.

While not intermittent, in my Father's `77 I installed a 944 steering wheel - which worked with the stalk, and so far the only feature I added was a VW waterpumper squirter - I mounted sub-mini switch in the stalk that operates a relay to control the pump.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel wrote:
Yep thats the one, or 197. is the superceded version

It has similar terminals to the standard relay but the orientation is different and it has the extra terminal (T or 86) for the wash/wipe function.

Easiest way to hook it up would be to use an on/off toggle switch on the dash for intermittent.
It took alot of modifying to the switch to get it to work the relay properly


Very interesting info - I have a 357 955 531 relay that I want to put into action. You say you did "alot of modifying to the switch to get it to work the relay properly".

What exactly did you do with the switch? Instead of the "S" connection on the 111 955 531 relay, you have a "T" and "I" on the newer programmable type. What did you connect to "T" and "I"?

Thanks a lot for your answer!
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Joel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the new relays "I" just needs 12 volts to it to operate intermittent

And "T" just needs 12 volts on it with the washer pump operating so that it does the wash-wipe function

The "S1" connection on the stock switch is grounded in all positions except int and goes open circuit when in intermittent position, so completely opposite of what the new relay needs.

To make it operate the relay i needed a seperate normally closed relay as a change over and also the stock washer contacts had to be cut out and a micro switch fitted in place of the stock air valve.

The easiest way to use one of the new relays is just have an on/off toggle switch that can supply 12 volts to "I" when you want intermittent
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Boble
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Joel!

Sorry to bother you with potentially stupid questions, but I would hate to burn the relay by connecting it wrong.


So, if I understand this right:

The "S1" (brown) wire connects to "I" on the relay, but it needs to go via a "normally closed relay" first so that it gives 12V when the switch is put in the intermittent position ("goes open circuit", that means powered with 12V, right? I'm not into all technical terms of the English language)

The wire from the wiper wash switch (the black separate one on 74> models) goes to "T", then.

The rest - 31, 15, 53M and 53S is connected the same way as the original 111955531 relays.

Have I got it?
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Joel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got most of it.
Open circuit means there is nothing at the wire, no positive or negative and thats what S1 does when it's in the intermittent position

I'm working on a diagram which will help.


I'm a very anally retentive person and like stuff to work as it's supposed to which is why I setup the stock switch to work the intermittent but that really over-complicated it.

Its very very simple if just using a straight on/off dash switch.

Bare with me and I'll work on the diagram
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel wrote:
You got most of it.
Open circuit means there is nothing at the wire, no positive or negative and thats what S1 does when it's in the intermittent position
I'm working on a diagram which will help.

I'm a very anally retentive person and like stuff to work as it's supposed to which is why I setup the stock switch to work the intermittent but that really over-complicated it.

Its very very simple if just using a straight on/off dash switch.
Bare with me and I'll work on the diagram


Thanks, Joel. I like your approach. What I want is the intermittent to work like it was supposed to, with the wiper stalk. The extra knob on the dash seems a litte too "haywire&bubble gum" to me... Wink
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