moron A/C...

[koolmoe]

SO to add to all the AC threads...my '90's AC doesn't work. I assume it's just a lack of 'oil' and doubt it was ever changed over to R134. Had a local shop (general shop, not VW/foreign specific) take a look and they indicated it was indeed still R12 and that the compressor looked fine...

Their suggestion was a conversion to R134 - about $175 for conversion, pressure/leak test, and oil fill. I know there are kits to do the conversion myself, but I'd still need it filled, which is about $50, so $125 for the parts/labor, leak test, etc...I'm cool with that (still working on my 'wrenching' skills, plus the hassle of getting to everything in the bus setup).

BUT then a coworker says he's got a couple cans of R12 left over from his older car and that I can have them. Cool. SO called a couple shops but, so far, NONE will do the charge - most claiming to not have the equipment anymore.

With free R12, I'm not even worried about the leak/pressure test/fix. As long as it gets me through this sweaty summer...which, I know, if the leak is bad, may not happen...I'm willing to just go for the recharge.

I've also got a new receiver/dryer from Van-Again here for whatever kind of work needs to be done. I'll look through the Bentley and see if I can locate and replace it myself....maybe...

ANYWAY, Questions:
1. No 'expiration' on R12, right? These old cans should work?
2. Is there a way to do this myself fairly safely? I've seen refill contraptions at the FLAPS...
3. Freeze12http://www.autorefrigerants.com/co00030.htm seems like the ideal solution but no one seems to use it and the shops I've called never heard of it. Why not?

Any thoughts appreciated!
KM
_________________
--
Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on)

[Sir Sam]

[Sir Sam]

Also, the r134a conversion kits are just a different fitting to go on the system filler connections for the high and low side, don't leave them connected, they will just cause the fittings to leak. After charging remove them and store them in a clean place for later and reinstall the cap if you still have them. My schrader valve in the low pressure r12 fitting was leaking, so I replaced it with a new one from a conversion kit, no more leaking schrader valve.
_________________
'91 Carat Westy

87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon

[purplepeopleeater]

redtek.

[morymob]

U best do a read-up on the things u can and will get into using r-34 on these old systems. As for the 'flush'mentioned above oil of the correct type must be used, a mineral based WAX free oil. Your van but u can keep digging a deeper hole with these things. If u may keep van, do it right now or do it over later.

[scottjk]

I was extremely disappointed in my R134 conversion. I finally did the RedTek conversion after which my wife at one point asked me to turn the a/c down.

Scott
_________________
1985 Westfalia 2.5L EJ

[Californio]

Redtek or Duracool both lower head pressures in the compressor compared to 134a. They also lower vent temps around 10* and are said not to leak as much (larger molecules.) Good stuff--I had my vents temps down to 34.9 the other day, 80* ambient.

[CessnaJon]

I have used Freeze 12 in my 90 Westy for 1 year now- it works great. Its only $6 a can at Napa.
_________________
1973 Westy (shared birthday)
1990 Westy Multivan
2015 Passat TDI 6sp
2015 Sportwagon TDI 6sp
LR-JET, Gulfstream 159

[Sir Sam]

[Terry Kay]

<<redtek.>>

X 30.
Make a phone call;
1 888-676-9380
Red Tek delivered to your door.

Get a couple of cans of the R-12A, a can of pro seal.

Remove the two lines at the compresor, blow air dryer alcohol in one way and out the other, reverse the alcohol & cleaning routine to the other hose.
Till they both blow clean alcohol outa them.

Replace the dryer.

You could do the expansion valve right away, but it isn't always required--unless you have a bunch of snot in the system.

You must remove all of the moisture in the system or your just spinning your wheels.
Minium evacuation time is 2 hours.
Let the Van sit with the gauges on it overight.
If it holds the vacuum the load it up with the freon and a 2 oz oil charge.

There is so much information available here in the archves regarding this very subject you can keep yourself real busy educating yourself on the proper proceedures, and what your gonna need to do the job right.

You really didn't need to inquire.

If you want to dump them two cans of R-12 in your AC lines, go ahead.
It's a crap shoot.

Might last for a hour, day --or even a month --maybe.
Whatever was in there left for a reason--you should figure that out first.
_________________
T.K.

[Volksaholic]

Another thumbs up for RedTek. After having seals replaced and vacuum tested on my '88 I pumped it full of RedTek. We were quite pleased, despite the fact that I didn't flush the system or replace the receiver/dryer at that time. So I ordered more and filled my Subaru Outback, which had leaked down to being useless when it was a couple years old. The RedTek has been in 3 years now and still kicks ass. Now I just finished my Subie conversion, flushed the AC parts, replaced the R/D, and I'm ready to have the hoses spliced... then I'll fill it with RedTek. TK and DogPilot introduced this stuff to me... I'm sold!

Paul
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[markz2004]

KoolMoe,

RedTek is your friend. thumb through this sitcky and you'll be Moe Kool.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=292488
_________________
87 Westy, 250k GW 2.4 - 2.0 , 16" wheels

[hiram6]

Okay, since the topic is Moron A/C, I can chime in here with another question. Sitting in a box in my garage is a brand new compressor, a new expansion valve, and a new drier.

I've got the air line chemical (basically alcohol) to clean the lines out, and I've got new o-rings to go everywhere. Also have a box from Red-tek sitting here with all the recommended goodies.

So here's my moron question. I know I need to add refrigerant oil to the system on the "freon" side, but doesn't the compressor have a separate lubricant? Is it it safe to assume that my compressor already has that oil? Or should I check it/ change it out before installing?
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[purplepeopleeater]

you need a can of oil, I bought mine from redtek just because.

[morymob]

Check the compressor as most are shipped empty. Average cap is 5oz, need to check as models vary a bit. Your Bently will specify how much goes where as u ready it for use. Oil constantly travels thru sys while in use so some has to allow for coating of insides, ifu flushed and started 'dry' the compressor would soon run out of oil a the pistons don't have rings.

[presslab]

[wcdennis]

Be careful about how much oil you pour into the compressor. Too much can cause hydro lock and ruin it. After you oil it, turn the inner wheel a few times by hand to work the oil around inside and make sure it is not getting stuck.

[Terry Kay]

If you have a brand new compressor, or even a rebuilt one , it'll have a tag wired tied to it or have a sheet of instructions in the box.

It'll tell you if you have to add oil, how much & what kind.
_________________
T.K.

[Sir Sam]

[koolmoe]

Great stuff. Thanks all!

I don't have tools, like the manifold gauges, vacuum pump, nor a compressor to blow anything (air, oil, whatever) through the system.
So seems like the proper way to do this isn't in the cards for the short time I have.

The couple shops I've contacted in my area all talk about R134. I asked one about RedTek and he'd never heard of it (or feigned ignorance). So I LIKE the idea of RedTek based on the reviews here and elsewhere on the site, but doesn't seem that's possible locally...

It's a different conversion? So if I convert fittings to R134, I'm stuck with R134? I can't then use anything but that...and if want to do RedTek, that's a different conversion?

So related to that, these various product 'cans' aren't standardized? I guess obviously if I found an R12 refill contraption, that's all it's good for is R12? Is that the same for all others - RedTek specific, R134 specific, etc?
NEAT that Autozone had an R12 filler set, but I'd rather not buy one for this one-time deal...especially since I wouldn't be able to do it the right way (vacuum, pressure, cleaning)...and letting it leak out is, as pointed out, a waste of a valuable thing...and not very eco-friendly.

SO it seems the best way to proceed with the week I have left is to just get the local shop to do the R134 conversion, despite the volume of noted disappointments. For $175, I guess it's just worth it. To recoup the cost, maybe I hawk the R12 cans on eBay...

Hey, to do the R134 conversion, does the rear cabinet have to be removed? I'd like to clean it out before giving it to the shop if so...

Last note, however, that CessnaJon reports good results with Freeze12...what filler contraption is required with that? How did you charge your system with it?

Finally, if anyone in the general Annapolis area has tools for doing this the right way, or knows someone, I'm available this weekend!
Cheers all.
KM
_________________
--
Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on)