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Augiedoggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2008
Posts: 463
Location: western ny
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 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| one2boost wrote: |
20 or so years ago, I had that Bugpack packaged Jamar park-lok fail in similar fashion as turboblue mentioned. Took it apart and replaced all the o-rings and reassembled. It worked great again. So, I guess I had one of those that failed back in the day, big deal.
For me I am not one of those cheap VW owners that gets associated with this hobby. I do have my share of Berg cranks and various parts, Scat, Bugpack, and CB Performance cranks and various other parts as well. For me, before I throw my money to purchase parts, I take the time to do the research. Currently looking to invest in an M-Spec crank a friend of mine told me about.
I have some EMPI stuff as well. But I know enough that the parts I purchase are not actually made EMPI. For instance, aluminum bubble top stroker cases, are made by Auto Linea. Pistons and cylinders in the recognizable Mahle box, pistons with the same Mahle stampings and embossments casted in, made by Mahle. KEP pressure plates with the same KEP stampings, yup made by KEP. My point is, just because it has the EMPI sticker with the EMPI part number, doesn't always mean it's made by EMPI. EMPI is a large parts distributor like NAPA. They buy parts in bulk from different companies then sell them to different parts stores. Similar to what Bugpack, Scat, IAP, and CB Performance does.
But there are a few EMPI parts that they took it a step further, copied and sold with the EMPI logo on it. Such as weber like carbs and other things I can't really think of right now. It's actually a common practice, back in the 70's Auto-Haus copied the DDS oil sump design, just put there own embossment. It's not a new practice.
So basically everyone should research the part before buying it. At least inspect it at the parts counter before buying it. |
well said.
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1970 vw beetle chassied mercedes ssk/gazelle kitcar SOLD
1974 Corvette restorod
1966 Bahama Blue Bug
1964 yellow bug (girlfriends ride) |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26781
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing new about it.
For a line lock to work well the entire brake system must be in top shape.
Human error is always the leading cause of failure. For engines AND line locks.
I think it's bold of empi to even sell them, I suppose their rep is such that if it fails to work people are not all that surprised. |
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Low67vdubinnocal
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2006
Posts: 840
Location: norcal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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Now, how about I tell the story of a rocket pack made by Acme that I sold to a customer. The instructions clearly state "If you do not properly strap rocket pack to back, this may cause bodily injury or death." Two weeks later I get a call from said customer's wife who is upset that her husband died using my rocket pack. When I ask if he used the required straps, her reply is "You mean these things that are still in the box?"
I'm pretty sure the wife hid the Instructions and straps...
I have used a few small Empi items through the years some of it better than others but you do get what you pay for. |
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thefladge
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Having worked at 2 different VW parts shops in the past, I can vouch that customers will often blame a good part for their defective installation.
Stripped rear brake drums and broken alternator pulleys are the first things that come to mind.
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1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate. |
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stoneloco808
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2007
Posts: 658
Location: Pakalolo Country, HI
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with one2boost. I myself have a bunch of big name high dollar parts. It's up to the consumer to inspect the parts he/she is buying.
Like I mentioned in one of the threads in the Wheel section, kind of odd that the Empi Fuchs replica looks exactly like the Flat-4 Fuch replica. Complete with that funky embossment casted in by the valve stem. The only difference I seen was a casted part number behind the wheel was grinded off and the box it was packaged in. So what does this mean? From what I see, Empi and Flat-4 buy the same stuff from the same factory. Sort of like what one2boost mentioned about NAPA.
I have to give props to Roy@mofoco for being a stand up guy/business owner and going the extra mile for his customers. I am sure those customers are still his customers.
Now only if the originators of the 044 cylinder heads and the stage 2 heads had the same business mentality I still would be a loyal customer. Instead, I now go to Clyde Berg. I will eventually send some stuff to Jeff Denham in the future. |
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bugninva
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8858
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
The morale of the story is, please look at what YOU as the customer is doing and don't instantly blame someone else when things don't work. Remember, I am also a customer of all my suppliers and I have to think like this every day. I 100% understand that this is one example. Obviously, not everything works like this; but more things do than you think.
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Roy, it's sad, but true... lots of folks that consider themselves "carguys" and think they know their way around thier cars(because they've cobbled them together and they still move) actually don't know enough to keep themselves out of trouble....Many years ago I used to go to the Advance auto and buy carbureters that were returned as "defective"(holley, edelbrock, etc) at core prices and then run them on my American iron... problem is, most folks, even "car guys" don't know shit about tuning a car, much less a carbureter and always returned the new carbs as defective, when it was really the guy installing it... worked out for me, though... 
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
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Augiedoggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2008
Posts: 463
Location: western ny
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| bugninva wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
The morale of the story is, please look at what YOU as the customer is doing and don't instantly blame someone else when things don't work. Remember, I am also a customer of all my suppliers and I have to think like this every day. I 100% understand that this is one example. Obviously, not everything works like this; but more things do than you think.
. |
Roy, it's sad, but true... lots of folks that consider themselves "carguys" and think they know their way around thier cars(because they've cobbled them together and they still move) actually don't know enough to keep themselves out of trouble....Many years ago I used to go to the Advance auto and buy carbureters that were returned as "defective"(holley, edelbrock, etc) at core prices and then run them on my American iron... problem is, most folks, even "car guys" don't know shit about tuning a car, much less a carbureter and always returned the new carbs as defective, when it was really the guy installing it... worked out for me, though... |
I do this with parts I have some other technicians send me they believe as bad or defective at work...and I use them in service contract machines were we can use used parts...saves the company thousands every year...well recoups some of the thousands the "other" techs are throwing away anyway...
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1970 vw beetle chassied mercedes ssk/gazelle kitcar SOLD
1974 Corvette restorod
1966 Bahama Blue Bug
1964 yellow bug (girlfriends ride) |
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veedubcrazy
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 2130
Location: La Porte, Tx.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| jbbugs wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Please do not make any stupid posts about all EMPI being crap blah, blah blah. |
Here we go................ |
Simple solution, whether anyone wants to hear it or not, is to say "Fuck Empi," and go through a better supplier. I don't care if this is considered a "stupid Empi is all crap" post, it's true. EMPI sucks donkey dick. |
Wow, I guess simple instructions are hard to follow. Please replace "EMPI" is "ACME" and please replace the "park lock" with "rocket pack" Now, how about I tell the story of a rocket pack made by Acme that I sold to a customer. The instructions clearly state "If you do not properly strap rocket pack to back, this may cause bodily injury or death." Two weeks later I get a call from said customer's wife who is upset that her husband died using my rocket pack. When I ask if he used the required straps, her reply is "You mean these things that are still in the box?"
Look, I really was just trying to convey the idea that not everything is the fault of the manufacturer or the store you bought the part from. I was speaking in very GENERAL terms using a SPECIFIC example. Sometimes the person who messed it up is looking right back in the mirror. Do you know how I know? Becuase I have broken more shit than most people and guess what? It was all my fault. I use these products every single day and I'm fucking tired of SOME people generalizing that "all company 1 is shit" or "all company 2 is shit" I'm sorry but you are full of shit!! Unless you build hundreds of engines per year for 40 plus years and/or have built over 1000 yourself, stick to talking about personal experiences only. Period. If you used X part from Y company and hated it, then by all means say it loud and proud. But if your sister's cousin's boyfriend's former roommate heard from a guy who told a girl that the part is shit, no one really cares. You are spreading MISINFORMATION, cut it out. |
I don't take orders from you or anyone else on this site, Roy.
And the arrogance of the rest of this post is hilarious... Saying EMPI make shitty parts is not misinformation, it's like saying the sky is blue. I've had plenty of Empi parts fail either in use or coming out of the package, primarily when I was younger and didn't know better. Thank God those days are over.
Here's a suggestion. Since I, and apparently anyone else that doesn't hold EMPI on a fucking pedastal is "full of shit," why don't you talk to someone in the biz like John at Aircooled.net, and see what he has to say about EMPI and their shitty fucking ass product support? He's made comments on this site, look them up yourself.
I started out in my earlier reply agreeing with you to an extent on how to approach situations such as what you first brought up, but, IMO, you're way over the top in your remarks. Fact is you may not want to hear it, but this is an internet forum and it's inevitable that every Tom, Dick and Harry is going to insert their two cents.
Mention EMPI and odds are there's going to be a lot of harsh words.
How many engines you've built in your lifetime or even today for that matter could matter less to me. The attitude displayed here speaks more than mere words. |
It is mere words. Without being face-to-face you can't tell attitude at all.
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1967 Deluxe Sedan |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| I don't take orders from you or anyone else on this site, Roy. |
Don't get butthurt when someone ruins one of your threads against your wishes, then. Posters like you are the reason threads often spiral into drivel around here.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| jbbugs wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Please do not make any stupid posts about all EMPI being crap blah, blah blah. |
Here we go................ |
Simple solution, whether anyone wants to hear it or not, is to say "Fuck Empi," and go through a better supplier. I don't care if this is considered a "stupid Empi is all crap" post, it's true. EMPI sucks donkey dick. |
This is exactly what I am talking about. This statement is an outright lie, it is 100% false, period. Saying that EVERYTHING empi sells is crap is absolutely not true. Saying that SOME of their stuff is crap is 100% true. Are you undertanding what I am saying? Do you see the difference in those two statements? And I do not hold anyone on a pedistal, not one place in this whole country. After posting on this board for the last few years I have learned that no place is perfect. All companies have good and bad qualities about them and it's OUR job together to figure them out. And yes, I am giving you an order; if you don't have anything intelligent to contribute to the discussion, then STFU and go away. The whole purpose of this site is to HELP people, not use scare tactics which will untimately drive people away from the hobby that we all love. |
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| veedubcrazy wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| jbbugs wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Please do not make any stupid posts about all EMPI being crap blah, blah blah. |
Here we go................ |
Simple solution, whether anyone wants to hear it or not, is to say "Fuck Empi," and go through a better supplier. I don't care if this is considered a "stupid Empi is all crap" post, it's true. EMPI sucks donkey dick. |
Wow, I guess simple instructions are hard to follow. Please replace "EMPI" is "ACME" and please replace the "park lock" with "rocket pack" Now, how about I tell the story of a rocket pack made by Acme that I sold to a customer. The instructions clearly state "If you do not properly strap rocket pack to back, this may cause bodily injury or death." Two weeks later I get a call from said customer's wife who is upset that her husband died using my rocket pack. When I ask if he used the required straps, her reply is "You mean these things that are still in the box?"
Look, I really was just trying to convey the idea that not everything is the fault of the manufacturer or the store you bought the part from. I was speaking in very GENERAL terms using a SPECIFIC example. Sometimes the person who messed it up is looking right back in the mirror. Do you know how I know? Becuase I have broken more shit than most people and guess what? It was all my fault. I use these products every single day and I'm fucking tired of SOME people generalizing that "all company 1 is shit" or "all company 2 is shit" I'm sorry but you are full of shit!! Unless you build hundreds of engines per year for 40 plus years and/or have built over 1000 yourself, stick to talking about personal experiences only. Period. If you used X part from Y company and hated it, then by all means say it loud and proud. But if your sister's cousin's boyfriend's former roommate heard from a guy who told a girl that the part is shit, no one really cares. You are spreading MISINFORMATION, cut it out. |
I don't take orders from you or anyone else on this site, Roy.
And the arrogance of the rest of this post is hilarious... Saying EMPI make shitty parts is not misinformation, it's like saying the sky is blue. I've had plenty of Empi parts fail either in use or coming out of the package, primarily when I was younger and didn't know better. Thank God those days are over.
Here's a suggestion. Since I, and apparently anyone else that doesn't hold EMPI on a fucking pedastal is "full of shit," why don't you talk to someone in the biz like John at Aircooled.net, and see what he has to say about EMPI and their shitty fucking ass product support? He's made comments on this site, look them up yourself.
I started out in my earlier reply agreeing with you to an extent on how to approach situations such as what you first brought up, but, IMO, you're way over the top in your remarks. Fact is you may not want to hear it, but this is an internet forum and it's inevitable that every Tom, Dick and Harry is going to insert their two cents.
Mention EMPI and odds are there's going to be a lot of harsh words.
How many engines you've built in your lifetime or even today for that matter could matter less to me. The attitude displayed here speaks more than mere words. |
It is mere words. Without being face-to-face you can't tell attitude at all. |
That's why I said "displayed here." 
And miniman, I'm not butthurt by any stretch; your point is well taken, though. In hindsight I can admit truth in what's been pointed out to me.
My opinion of EMPI still stands, irregardless of however misguided my opinion may seem to others, including Roy. My opinion isn't just based on parts, but their customer service (lack thereof) and laughable product support (lack thereof) as well as what they (and others like them, such as Johnny's Speed and Chrome, though they're long since gone) have done to the VW industry over the last 25 plus years. They sponsored PRA's Pro Mod class last year or whenever it was? BFD.
Anybody remember the EMPI Outlet debacle? They got into trouble when they started undercutting their own retailers in selling their products at their Anaheim headquarters. Lol.
But I digress. I admit this has gone a bit off track. I do agree with Roy's initial points about self-accountability.
I don't think anything was said that would drive people away from the hobby; I think if anything cheap, shitty parts have already done more than enough of that over the years.
As for telling me to STFU, I've learned it's pointless to spew things on the internet that one isn't prepared to say in the real world. In my defense, I'll tell anyone who listens to shop carefully when buying parts and to avoid EMPI. |
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lupin..the..3rd
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2009
Posts: 1800
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| To our suprise, each and every one was filled with dirty, slimey brake fluid sludge. |
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
| If six different customers experienced the same problem, is it possible the manufacturer has not been clear enough in specifying the maintenance requirements of the part? |
Eh? It has nothing to do with the maintenance requirements of the part. It has to do with the maintenance of the car. Your brake fluid should never ever be dirty. It should never ever be slimey. And there should never ever be "sludge" in the system. These conditions are due to extreme neglect by the vehicle owner. Brake fluid should be changed every year!! Two years, at absolute most, if you live in a dry climate. It takes 8+ years for brake fluid to become visibly dirty, slimy, and sludgy. That is extreme neglect! I've read these forums enough to realize there is a significant percentage of VW owners who simply do not service their brake hydraulic system, ever. That's the owners fault for being ignorant and/or lazy.
This is no different than buying an oil pump, then returning it because "it doesn't work", when in fact you haven't changed your oil in 50,000 miles, and it has turned into tar.
If I were Roy, I'd put a big fat disclaimer on that part, that refunds will NOT be given for parts that are damaged by rotten ancient brake fluid. |
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79SuperVert
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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I understand and agree with your point. Just seems odd that in less than a year, six different customers of the same vendor, buying a rather specialized part, are all guilty of neglecting their braking system to the extent that the components are failing. One would assume that their brake cylinders and master cylinders should also be failing for the same reason.
Of course, since Roy was able to get them all working perfectly again simply by cleaning them, I guess in this case it really is nothing more than neglect by all six customers.
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Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.
Last edited by 79SuperVert on Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tattooed_pariah
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006
Posts: 2047
Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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[quote="lupin..the..3rd]If I were Roy, I'd put a big fat disclaimer on that part, that refunds will NOT be given for parts that are damaged by rotten ancient brake fluid.[/quote]
I'd prefer hanging a single sign that reads along the lines of, "No refunds if your own ass-hattery broke the part."
having to put a disclaimer sticker on every package begins to cut into man-hours, print supplies, and patience, very fast..
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-pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
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lupin..the..3rd
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2009
Posts: 1800
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 79SuperVert wrote: |
| One would assume that their brake cylinders and master cylinders should also be failing for the same reason. |
It's true, however a parking brake mechanism will either hold the car, or it won't. There isn't really any "middle ground".
For MC's and wheel cylinders, there's plenty of folks driving around with worn out leaky ones. They obviously don't perform well. You push the pedal, and the car kind of, sort of, starts to slow down. It's not an on/off switch like a parking brake - there's a lot of "middle ground" where they start leaking, and sort of, kind of, still work. |
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73stroker
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| one2boost wrote: |
| So basically everyone should research the part before buying it. At least inspect it at the parts counter before buying it. |
Exactly. Parts can be made shitty or even fail because once in a while there are defects, but there is no replacement for researching a product prior to purchase. Even so, I think Roy's point was to illustrate that accountability tends to be placed on the part rather than the proper installation or care after the fact.
And yes, I do understand he was talking about an EMPI part and blah, blah. But I've also bought some EMPI items understanding that it may need to be massaged a bit.
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1973 standard Type 1
2276cc
DRD L6 heads
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| .... irregardless .... |
There's no such word.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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lupin..the..3rd
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2009
Posts: 1800
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| .... irregardless .... |
There's no such word. |
disirregardlessness? |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| .... irregardless .... |
There's no such word. |
You sure....
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definiti...Search#906
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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turboblue
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2003
Posts: 4216
Location: Central Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Taking responsibility for your own actions...... |
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Maybe not in Canada Dale.......... 
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Gary
Turbo VW Sand Drag Buggy
"If you don't run into the Devil every once in awhile, you must be going in the same direction!" |
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