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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: replace radiator fan with electric fan? |
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I have a 1982 Vanagon westy that has a VR6 swap. The radiator and fan is from what I believe was a 1986 Vanagon. It was working, but it was very loud. From What I have learned from my search, that is a sign of a bad resistor. Well now mine isn't working a bit. There is power to the 3 prong plug by the bottom of the radiator. I have jumped it between all 3 prongs and I don't get anyhting from the fan with any combination of prongs when I jump it.
I have only found 1 vendor that has this fan and they want almost $600 for it. I REALLY don't want to pay that much for a simple fan.
Is there any reason I can't just hook up an electric fan and do away with the original fan?
Does anyone know the CFM of the original fan?
I know for a fact I don't have a resistor behind the headlight, I am confused as to if this was found on pre 86 vanagons, or after. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: Re: replace radiator fan with electric fan? |
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The fan is probably fine. You need to test it while bypassing your wiring. The problem is most likely in the added wiring and you would have to fix that even with a different fan. Nothing is likely to work as well as a stock Vanagon fan.
The big external low speed resistor was only used in models with the large fan motor. Most but not all 86-91 have the bigger fan motor and need the resistor.
Mark
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I have a 1982 Vanagon westy that has a VR6 swap. The radiator and fan is from what I believe was a 1986 Vanagon. It was working, but it was very loud. From What I have learned from my search, that is a sign of a bad resistor. Well now mine isn't working a bit. There is power to the 3 prong plug by the bottom of the radiator. I have jumped it between all 3 prongs and I don't get anyhting from the fan with any combination of prongs when I jump it.
I have only found 1 vendor that has this fan and they want almost $600 for it. I REALLY don't want to pay that much for a simple fan.
Is there any reason I can't just hook up an electric fan and do away with the original fan?
Does anyone know the CFM of the original fan?
I know for a fact I don't have a resistor behind the headlight, I am confused as to if this was found on pre 86 vanagons, or after. |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: |
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What do you mean test it while bypassing wiring? I tested it from the plug down by the radiator, where would I test it bypassing wiring?
There is a sticker on my fan with a Bosch part number, does anyone know what the part number is on either of the different fans so I can be positive what one I have? |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17110 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Your test at the fan switch if the fan came on would only confirm that the fan is good and the circuit is correct. The fix would be a new fan switch or a flow problem related to air in the system or thermostat issue. This is not your problem. You should test the fan with some decent jumper leads with the stock wiring disconnected from the fan. This will tell you for sure if the fan is bad. If the fan runs, then you know you have a problem in the wiring and will need to trace it out. Regards _________________ ☮️ |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Tell me the VW part number on the sticker and I will tell you which fan it is.
The big fan motor has 2 threaded studs where the wires screw on.
The small fan motor has 3 wires built into it that can't be removed.
Mark
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
What do you mean test it while bypassing wiring? I tested it from the plug down by the radiator, where would I test it bypassing wiring?
There is a sticker on my fan with a Bosch part number, does anyone know what the part number is on either of the different fans so I can be positive what one I have? |
Last edited by crazyvwvanman on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have the 2 threaded studs, so I guess that means I have the bigger unit. That also means I need the resistor that goes behind the headlight?
As far as testing the fan, You saying I should hook a hot and a ground from the battery, directly to the wires on the fan to see if it runs? |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes that is the bigger fan motor and must have a resistor connected to the wiring if it is to work on any lower speed. It can work fine without a resistor but only at full speed which makes a LOT of noise.
The big motor pulls a TON of amps so if the person who installed it did not use heavy enough wiring the wiring probably cooked somewhere. In the 86+ vans VW ran a dedicated power wire from the battery to the fan high speed relay on models that used the big fan.
To test the motor connect 12 volts to the positive stud and ground to the other stud, with decent size wire. For a quick test 12 or 14 gauge should do but really 10 gauge is the bare minimum for sustained high speed and 8 gauge is what I would use if making my own wiring up.
Mark
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I have the 2 threaded studs, so I guess that means I have the bigger unit. That also means I need the resistor that goes behind the headlight?
As far as testing the fan, You saying I should hook a hot and a ground from the battery, directly to the wires on the fan to see if it runs? |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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is that resistor still available or do I need to find the specs of it and find something with the same specs?
The wiring that was added to make the fan work is 10 gauge. I looked around at it but didn't see or smell anything burnt. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17110 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I have the 2 threaded studs, so I guess that means I have the bigger unit. That also means I need the resistor that goes behind the headlight?
As far as testing the fan, You saying I should hook a hot and a ground from the battery, directly to the wires on the fan to see if it runs? |
Yes if you want to be more careful, you could add a circuit breaker in case the fan is dead shorted. _________________ ☮️ |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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The resistor is available but has been hard to find at times and may go NLA again. If using with a custom harness you can choose either the 2 speed E part, or the 3 speed H part for A/C models.
There is an Audi part that does the same job for the same size big fan motor some big Audis had in the 1980s. The Audi resistor is much cheaper but is meant to mount down in the airflow of the fan, in front of the radiator I think. It is larger and made of metal. I don't think it fails as often either but that is just a guess and may be due to the airflow keeping it cooler. I recently bought a couple to try since the Vanagon resistors were NLA recently. I have not installed one yet but will sometime.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...r/Resistor
Mark
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
is that resistor still available or do I need to find the specs of it and find something with the same specs?
The wiring that was added to make the fan work is 10 gauge. I looked around at it but didn't see or smell anything burnt. |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I just ordered the resistor from van cafe. I think it was $54 They sent it out already according to their email. I should see it in a couple days. I guess I need to start thinking about how the resistor gets wired into the system...
Next I will determine if my fan needs replaced or not. If it does, I found one for $358 from partsgeek.com it is by far the best price i have found for a new one. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a newer Bentley it shows a simple and separate wiring diagram for the 450 watt fan with external resistor.
page 97.200
You will need a power wire from the battery to a 60 or 70 amp relay and a 50 amp fuse if you mirror the factor wiring.
Mark
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I just ordered the resistor from van cafe. I think it was $54 They sent it out already according to their email. I should see it in a couple days. I guess I need to start thinking about how the resistor gets wired into the system...
Next I will determine if my fan needs replaced or not. If it does, I found one for $358 from partsgeek.com it is by far the best price i have found for a new one. |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a bentley, but I have the official factory repair manual, (the thick green book) I was hoping I would be able to find something in there to help me. I will look when I get home tonight. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, look at page 97.200 in the thick green book, if yours covers up to 1991.
Mark
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I don't have a bentley, but I have the official factory repair manual, (the thick green book) I was hoping I would be able to find something in there to help me. I will look when I get home tonight. |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
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So today I took a spare battery, and a set of jumper cables with the clamps on one end cut off and put juice to my fan directly, it didn't budge. So now I'm pretty positive I need a fan. I saw one for $358, new, Bosch, the only other place I saw that carried it wanted like $579.
Does anyone know where to get this fan any cheaper? It is the 450 watt one, by the way. |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Someone needs to get something like this going. Cheaper, and I bet quieter and more efficient.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-119/
_________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I just ordered the resistor from van cafe. I think it was $54 They sent it out already according to their email. I should see it in a couple days. I guess I need to start thinking about how the resistor gets wired into the system...
Next I will determine if my fan needs replaced or not. If it does, I found one for $358 from partsgeek.com it is by far the best price i have found for a new one. |
VR6 vanagon wrote: |
So today I took a spare battery, and a set of jumper cables with the clamps on one end cut off and put juice to my fan directly, it didn't budge. So now I'm pretty positive I need a fan. I saw one for $358, new, Bosch, the only other place I saw that carried it wanted like $579.
Does anyone know where to get this fan any cheaper? It is the 450 watt one, by the way. |
I was wondering with the first post there why you ordered the resistor before testing the fan. I guess you'll now have a spare.
For the fan itself I would get one from the junkyard. |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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The reason I got the resistor before the fan was because when the VR6 swap was done, and the radiator and fan was added, the resistor was never put it. I didn't know it needed one. I thought my fan was old and on it's last leg since it was so noisy. So I bought the resistor, cuz if my fan was bad or not, i didn't have the resistor. So i figured I'd get that since I needed it anyhow. |
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VR6 vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2008 Posts: 93 Location: New Port Richey Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I ended up getting the proper fan, brand new from ebay for $179. It isn't Bosch, but it is German made. I think the company is Hamburg tech or something. That is only $39 more than the fan you sent link to. |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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VR6 vanagon wrote: |
I ended up getting the proper fan, brand new from ebay for $179. It isn't Bosch, but it is German made. I think the company is Hamburg tech or something. That is only $39 more than the fan you sent link to. |
That's a good price.
Edit: Found the ebay ad. Let us know how it turns out. That's an awesome deal. _________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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