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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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 Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: Syncro :want mine lower |
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| Except for longer,stiffer springs is there additional structure changes to make it sit so high? Only off road is in my yard but i would like it to set close or same as my '84 GL. |
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foodeater
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 1318
Location: Newburgh, NY
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget that if you do get it as low as your '84, the motor and trans will be 2" closer to the ground than they are in the '84. Also your upwards suspension travel will be limited as you will be closer to your bump stops.
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89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP |
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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| If i can get it where i want the ground clearance on the hwy i'm not worried about with the skid plates/bars, and if all else is ok then i can shorten or maybe replace with short ones and keep originals , if next owner needs them. I don't plan any off-roading, done that. |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:39 am Post subject: |
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You can use 2WD stuff at the back and then look at possibly 30mm 2WD Factory lowered springs like from a Bluestar.
You are going pretty much into unchartered territory here as most folk want to raise their Syncros. If you really want it to handle, then I think coil over front shocks will be the way so you can really dial in height, corner weights and damping rates. There are plenty of manufacturers who sell units by length etc rather than for specific vehicles.
If you have the time, you would benefit from doing some testing on the stock suspension by removing the shock/spring, putting the suspension back together and testing for bump steer/camber to see where the limits are before ordering specific length units. Then you get a good idea as to how long you can go before running out of camber, track and caster adjustments.
I do understand your thoughts though. I had a Tristar Syncro RHD and didn't want to offroad it as it was too nice and was tempted to look into this.
MG
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FNGRUVN
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 2237
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Lowering a syncro? OK, now I think I've heard everything. You gonna put spinners on it too? 
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin |
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RGS Paul
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Los Alamos, NM
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I have to ask. Why do you want to lower the Syncro if you have an '84 that has the height you want? Why not sell the Syncro and get a 2WD and lower that, or leave it as stock and it should be about where you want it. A 2WD will do fine in snow and stuff if you put the right tires on it so why haul around all the Syncro weight if you're going to set it up so you can't use it?
I'm just curious,
Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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this just might do the trick, it should slip right over the syncro front shock in place of the spring. question is if the optimum inflation of the bag gives you a nice ride height. you might need to make a flat seat for the bag to rest on since the shock has that shaped perch for the coil of the spring to sit on.
Click to enlarge
"Aero Sport" By Universal Air
[02-ST-SB-14]
Item #: 29
This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 26 October, 2004.
Item Description
Single Convoluted Air Spring.
Designed for to slip over your Factory/Performance Struts. (Pressure tube must be less then 2.14 in Diameter)
4.0" Compressed
9.25" Extended
5.875" Diameter
Bags made from Synthetic rubber to be resistant against Oil and breakdown that will ruin Natural Rubber.
Available in 1/4 NPT Ports
MADE IN THE USA!
NOTE: The brackets required to install these bags are 2 Flat Plates (Upper and Lower), Bearing Kit (You also can use your factor bearing plate for this application). Using the bearing supplied in the kit will allow you to achive an additional 1" Drop.
Applications Include:
04+ F-150 Front Suspension
Ford Expedition Front and Rear
Charger, 300C, Magnum
Scion
Lexus
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Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Please do not molest/destroy a syncro. They are getting rarer every passing year. Don't think about it too much or get overly ambitious. If there's ever a time you sell it your potential molestation will lower the syncro's value for you. Think more along the line of improvements/upgrades. As RGS Paul sez, why not just go with another 2wd ? I watched the era of air-cooled molestations and now it's hard to find a good clean one. |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| RGS Paul wrote: |
Ok, I have to ask. Why do you want to lower the Syncro if you have an '84 that has the height you want? Why not sell the Syncro and get a 2WD and lower that, or leave it as stock and it should be about where you want it. A 2WD will do fine in snow and stuff if you put the right tires on it so why haul around all the Syncro weight if you're going to set it up so you can't use it?
I'm just curious,
Paul |
if a 2WD is okay in the snow with the right tires at its normal ride height then a syncro should be much much better with the right tires and at the same ride height, what? Lowering it won't change its traction qualities. If he doesn't plan to go off road then why not optimise it for the pavement and have the best of both worlds?
and besides, its his van. he is not talking about cutting it up, just changing the springs. (all you need to do)
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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and you "syncro" guys have cut up perfectly good vans to convert and create coveted Westy syncros so whatever
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| 240Gordy wrote: |
| and you "syncro" guys have cut up perfectly good vans to convert and create coveted Westy syncros so whatever |
Ah-h-h .... a partisan has been outed !!!  |
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Vanagonner
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2009
Posts: 506
Location: Broomfield Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| WestyBob wrote: |
| Please do not molest/destroy a syncro. They are getting rarer every passing year. Don't think about it too much or get overly ambitious. If there's ever a time you sell it your potential molestation will lower the syncro's value for you. Think more along the line of improvements/upgrades. As RGS Paul sez, why not just go with another 2wd ? I watched the era of air-cooled molestations and now it's hard to find a good clean one. |
I understand that sentiment, when I had a Syncro I was afraid to touch it, and this was before they became popular. I knew it was rare. It remained bone stock for 10 years till I sold it. It even had the original fuel lines. 
In contrast, I am much happier to have the one I do now because I can molest/destroy it at will- and I do! It is kind of a rust bucket and only exists because I patch it back together anyway, so it is MINE!
Lowered syncro or jacked up 2wd- as you wish, it is all reversible. Just keep all the original parts. I have a bucket of original diesel stuff I have removed from mine, just in case.
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Sage
'82 Westy 1.6 D
the mighty n/a |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10077
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Hey mory, if it has zero rust I have a real beater '87 GL I could be convinced to trade for it.
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Vanagonner wrote: |
| In contrast, I am much happier to have the one I do now because I can molest/destroy it at will- and I do! It is kind of a rust bucket and only exists because I patch it back together anyway, so it is MINE! |
I can understand. I have several syncros, one a true garage queen, that I baby. And another that was a beater when I got it that I fixed up but is my daily driver and off-roader and don't mind if it gets a scratch here, a ding there. Yet the more I fix it up the more I worry about trashing it (too much). An oxymoron.  |
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DLJ
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 554
Location: North California
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: lower syncro |
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| Hey I tend to agree with RGS Paul Why not just get a 2wd outfit it and go. I have two syncro's and a 2wd. I would be happy to negotiate a trade. |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| WestyBob wrote: |
| 240Gordy wrote: |
| and you "syncro" guys have cut up perfectly good vans to convert and create coveted Westy syncros so whatever |
Ah-h-h .... a partisan has been outed !!! |
what is that big word, for unable to make up your mind? I have my 2WD on blocks (3 2x4s) and the airbgs pumped right up to get the engine out, and I'm thinking it looks pretty cool that way. Might make a faux-cro out of it. Syncro shocks and bags in the front. Fully ride height adjustable . . .
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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And ... another syncro van just showed up for sale in Pdx ... I can't fit another on my property ... body and interior look clean but needs a little steering/cat work (according to owner) ...
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/1831080389.html |
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| 240Gordy wrote: |
| Might make a faux-cro out of it. Syncro shocks and bags in the front. Fully ride height adjustable . . . |
I was thinking of semi-truck sized balloon inner tubes on extended front/rear half-axles .... kinda bounce/float over any highway debris ... |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: |
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I don't quite get the philosophy here...
It's his van, let him do what he wants to with it.
I've personally cut up 3 syncros which were dead and helped others do all sorts to their syncros.
I'm all for doing whatever you want to, to your own van.
I really enjoyed driving my Tristar Syncro in the countryside.. on the road! with 225/60/16s and a slightly tight VC, it stuck like glue to the road and was a real hoot.. the only thing that let it down was that it didn't have enough go... oh and it drunk fuel but hey... I was having fun!!
If he wants to lower it, I'll help him work out how to do it and make the best job. We're not talking about turning it into a 2WD van, everything will be re-fittable by someone else if he decides to sell it later on.
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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RGS Paul
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Los Alamos, NM
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| 240Gordy wrote: |
if a 2WD is okay in the snow with the right tires at its normal ride height then a syncro should be much much better with the right tires and at the same ride height, what? Lowering it won't change its traction qualities. If he doesn't plan to go off road then why not optimise it for the pavement and have the best of both worlds?
and besides, its his van. he is not talking about cutting it up, just changing the springs. (all you need to do) |
Because the Syncro is more expensive to run in every possible way. Unless you need all the wheels driven then why deal with the added costs? On paved roads a 2WD will do fine, so like I said I was just curious why you would want to deal with the hassle of a Syncro if you are going to set it up to be a 2WD equivalent. The auto marketing industry has sold people on the idea that they need 4WD in the rain and if there are leaves on the road and it just isn't true, so why reinvent the wheel and lower a Syncro?
I agree that it's his van and he can do what he wants with it. I think there will be more problems then just swapping out the springs. The CV joints, clearance with the front uprights, getting the suspension set right (camber, caster, and toe), and the shocks possibly binding or hitting the bump stops are all issues I'd be concerned about.
Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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